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Men, Sex and Porn - One Guy's Candid Opinion

By February 8, 2009

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UPDATED June 21, 2011

Why do men behave the way they do when it comes to women, sex and porn? And why are they afraid to talk about it openly or take ownership of their comments? This post offers one answer to both these questions.

Back in February 2009 I was contacted by the editor of a prominent website who had given space to a guest commentary about what men think of women, sex and porn. He invited me to write about the opinions expressed and link back to his website.

I did, creating a post that has attracted a large number of readers and comments over the years. It's been one of the most widely viewed posts I've written, and the honesty and forthrightness that have been expressed in the 160+ comments below illustrate how much women and men want to talk about these issues.

However, the men who were the catalysts for this post -- the editor and his guest commentator -- both appear to have had a change of heart. The editor emailed me early this morning to politely request that I delete this post. When I revisited the words I'd originally published and clicked on the links back to his site, I found that all evidence of that commentary have been eliminated. This post is the only record that these words were ever published.

Because the topic has triggered many provocative conversations in the comments section below, I won't be deleting this. However, I have removed the name of the website, the editor's name, and the nickname of the commentator whom I'll refer to as MP.

It's MP's views expressed below that have sparked a debate that continues to this day. What do men really think about women, sex and porn? Here's one (now anonymous) guy's candid opinion:

Men are visual when it comes to sex; it is part of the feedback loop. That's why women appear pretty or sexy. It's what attracts men to women....

Many men have a need for additional stimulation. This is accomplished in various levels depending on a combination of factors including character, sex drive, sex life, stress, hormones - any number of things. Porn adds a visual stimulant that helps taper or increase the sex drive....

Women get confused about this. Men aren't having sex with the models in the pornography, the stimulant is watching others having sex.

Some men find a trip to Hooters stimulating. Others frequent strip joints. Some up the ante with drugs or alcohol. Others employ the world's oldest professional, prostitutes. Still others are compulsive cheaters....

If you want a demonstration of how primitive men's sex drives are add some beer to the mix. Watch as his social barriers diminish and his sex drive take over. Men will have sex with just about any female after a few drinks; hence the term 'beer goggles'. Some men need alcohol to have sex as they need help in reducing inhibitions or they find their mate unattractive.

Ouch. This is just the tip of MP's iceberg -- a short excerpt of the original (and lengthy) commentary which has subsequently been removed from the website that published it. It's candid and honest; but it's also the sort of thing to sink a relationship between two people passing each other like ships in the night. Perhaps that's why the editor removed it. Unfortunately, we'll never know. He never said why he wants all evidence of it wiped away.

Is this a hard truth we need to hear, or TMI (too much information)? Or just the opinion of one man who - although he tries to - doesn't necessarily speak for the majority of men?

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Comments

February 8, 2009 at 1:42 am
(1) Meh-ry Magdalen says:

Judging from what you cite in the article, I think the author totally fails to take into account social context and the laziness found in it. Plus, girls can like porn just as much as guys but the industry is not geared to a female audience. I think the differences between men and women are arbitrary and always blurred.

Additionally, using drugs and alcohol is not “upping the ante” its dumbing it down. Pressure felt around sex in social environments is intense and drugs and alcohol are way to dissolve barriers that should probably be there, especially since so many sex crimes occur while under the influence.

I think many factors of American culture, popular culture and history have left us with a steaming pile of stupid bull**** that most every weekend warrior sits down to make a meal out of at prime time. None of the things like Hooters, prostitution, pornography and Coors are inherently natural. They are manifestations of our bull**** lifestyle.

This issue requires greater depth of analysis in order to be considered honest.

February 8, 2009 at 4:11 am
(2) melim says:

it’s none of those things. what it is is a load of crap that feminists have heard men say 50 million times to defend their use of porn and their hatred of women.

February 8, 2009 at 9:49 pm
(3) Paul Mansfield says:

It’s an interesting article – very honest actually (speaking as a man). Reacting to the previous comment – some feminists are a strange. We don’t hate women – we don’t enough to, maybe that’s why you would like us to? Maybe women are afraid of men? The piece I read is obviously a commentary and doesn’t address other issues like problems/addictions etc. Otherwide 2 thumbs up for effort. And honesty.

February 11, 2009 at 3:25 am
(4) jilly says:

Men and women arn’t so different when it comes to sex. Many women enjoy visual stimulation,the only difference is that men over the years have been brought up to be more comfortable with it, as in many things when it comes to sex. This article just gives men the red light leaving them void of any responsibility for there sexual behaviour especially when married or in any form of committed relationship.It seems that some men are becoming hooked on internet porn even husband, fathers and grandfathers are at it and why because they can get instant gratification with little effort.If the writer of this actical believes that men jerking off to porn is the way man is going to help the human race reproduce he is sadly mistaken.And as for a womans sex drive dropping after entering a relationship, mine has always been very high and at 50 still is and I don’t believe I am an exception to the rule either.This article is actually pretty demeaning to men as it suggest that anything else a man does in life other then hunting out a female for sex is just fluff, all seems very narrow mined to me.I know men who are totally devoted to there partners and off spring and hold them above all else even sex something obviously the writer of this article would possibly find difficult to take on board. All these so called expert and there finding are often found to be unproven and in the end a pile of poop!.

February 12, 2009 at 10:13 pm
(5) jf says:

My husband was addicted to porn & we both had a hard time w/intimacy because of his being so into porn. In order for him to have sex we would have to watch an adult film together. We had such a very unhealthy sex life. In addition to his addiction to porn, we were both into a adult swinging lifestyle on occasion. After years of participating with swinging, we found that lifestyle very dis-satisfying. We knew we had to change that life so we sought out church, new friends & accepted the Lord Jesus in our lives. I hope this guy who wrote the article reads this blog because our life changed from being very unhappy & empty to very happy together sexually & spiritually healed by God. I hope others read this as well & will give you hope. Infidelity & all the problems that come with the adult lifestyle are healed now after years of being in that lifestyle. After 3 years of our new life, we volunteer at our church, we are closer to our children, & are there for are grandchildren. We were on the verge of divorce after 15 years of marriage yet Jesus intervened. I hope someone reads this & finds hope. Take care all. Julie

February 19, 2009 at 4:14 pm
(6) Paula says:

Why do we care what men think? I tend to care about what’s right for me and what I need. If I do not want to deal, fight, argue, work on, whatever, I move on. I can be alone. Many women seem desperate and hate themselves and that is why many men act the way they do. I have had really good boyfriends and many proposals. I find being independent attracts the best men.

February 23, 2009 at 6:18 am
(7) misssy says:

I think it is true…I am a women…but I need the visual sometimes of porn to get me “interested” in having sex. RedTube is the only site I have found that doesn’t cause computer crashes. I was planning on sharing this information with my b/f when he moves in..since he doesn’t have a computer at home.
I liked the article, I don’t think men use porn as an excuse. I think SOME might, but not all.

March 6, 2009 at 3:00 pm
(8) ccc says:

Wow, Meh-ry Magdelan you are bitter and it bleeds thru in your comments.
It also looks like you recently took a Philosophy course,…Good for you!
How do you know the “porn industry” is “geared towards men”??? What qualifications do you have(other than being bitter)to make that narrow minded assumption?
Are you a porn expert? Change your narrow minded and bitter ways before it ruins your life. Oh, and really THINK before you leave another comment here or anywhere.
The important thing here is that we are discussing these important relationship issues and striving towards understanding each other rather then pointing fingers, building up walls and casting out “all those evil,evil,evil(sarcasm) porn watching MEN”
DR. C.C.

March 7, 2009 at 5:25 pm
(9) elisa says:

ccc,

you’re an absolute fool.

March 10, 2009 at 7:48 am
(10) David says:

I think it’s very normal for men of all ages to be interrested in anything visually stimulating.

March 15, 2009 at 4:55 pm
(11) Curious says:

Ok, accepting that men need visual stimuli to become sexually aroused, why can’t they look at their wives or girlfriends only for that?

April 3, 2009 at 3:32 am
(12) alex says:

i have horrible beer goggles

April 13, 2009 at 4:15 am
(13) Mike says:

Here’s it nice and simple. Guys are easily aroused by random women they see every day, weather they like it or not, married or single. Semen builds up, and its painful. To relieve it they must ejaculate through masturbation, sex, or wet dreams. The sooner a guy finds relief the sooner he can get on with other things that are most likely more important to the rest of the world. It’s like a headache that comes everyday, guys are just reaching for the closest bottle of Tylenol so they can get on with life.

April 19, 2009 at 6:42 am
(14) Jim says:

I have a tendency to believe no one will care about my feelings about this. Why? Because we are all, including myself, self-absorbed in our own little worlds. That is shown by some of the responses to this subject.

My wife is beautiful. She is in her early sixties now and someone just the other day said she looks in her 40’s and still has a body many young women would die for. She is my second wife, the first died in an auto accident, and my present wife and I have been together for 20 years. The reason for stating this is to show I am in a committed relationship with a beautiful woman I adore.

That doesn’t stop me from looking at internet porn. Why? Because she isn’t interested in sex near as much as I am. Just as Mike said about masturbation “The sooner a guy finds relief the sooner he can get on with other things that are most likely more important to the rest of the world.” Women and men are different about some things and the same about some things. That goes for women and women and men and men also. You can’t stereo type relationships. There are no two alike.

Today my wife and I had sex for the first time in a week or so. She had been busy with stuff I don’t care about and we didn’t have any sexual activity for a while. That happens regularly. She isn’t interested. To be fair, I’m not either. It takes too long and leaves me spaced for the rest of the day. We enjoy one another and have good sex. I am not stating this for any reason other than to say sexually she is satisfied, but she got off 5 times this morning and me once. Still, I needed to get off again tonight to get on with things more important. She wasn’t interested and I didn’t want to take the hour and a half to two hours to play or bother her. I just wanted to think about “things that are most likely more important to the rest of the world.” Porn helped me go there by getting sex off my mind.

I didn’t fantasize about being with the women in the porn. Nature helped things along by providing the natural stimulus of the enjoyment of the female form. What I enjoyed the most was fantasizing that women want to have sex. That is the main attraction to porn for men. I know several women as friends and they are not thinking about sex, just as my wife doesn’t. I do! I don’t want to go out and have sex with a horny woman. I am very happy with my wife. I just want to get on with things. Ejaculating clears my head of the thought of sex, as with most men, then on to other things.

April 29, 2009 at 1:18 am
(15) John says:

Nice, Jim.

May 5, 2009 at 2:23 pm
(16) Phil C says:

I’m most disturbed, and yet, unfortunately, not at all surprised, by some of the comments SOME of the female posters have left (kudos to those intelligent enough to understand men and women think differently).

I will say this, being a man that is probably more in touch with his ‘feelings’ than many men are, I think about and analyze things probably more than most other people, that is my experience.

Having said that, the problem with many women’s views is that they insist that their view is the ‘norm’ and that anything outside of that is ‘wrong’, instead of ‘different’. That’s a dangerous way to view things.

As evidenced by one of the above posters, I believe FAR too many women would agree with the unintelligent drivel about ‘men just using that as an excuse’. Sorry, lady, you’re not a man, don’t EVEN attempt to try to think you know how we feel. The equivilant for you to try to understand is when men say that PMS is just an excuse for women to have b*tchy behavior. Is that fair? No, of course not.

To answer your question, about why men would turn to porn is that the TRUTH is, MOST women do not look nearly as attractive as the women in porn. Some men have very attractive wives, and still may want porn just for the very nature some of the other men posters indicated. Most men need an outlet in that department. That’s just the way it is. Don’t try to change it, otherwise, you might need to look in the mirror and figure out what you should change about yourselves to make us happier…but I’m guessing you wouldn’t want to do that, huh? Why try that with men?

In today’s society, feminists work so hard to change the ‘self-image’ of women that tells them they don’t need to be skinny, that many women today let themselves go. and then they just expect that men, who’s nature is based on physical beauty, should just accept it. Well, what do you expect? I’m not suggesting that women should be supermodel skinny. I personally think that’s crazy, and very unhealthy. but so is weighing 165 lbs at 5’5, not to mention unattractive.

Maybe it’s just human nature that men AND women have selfish desires of their mate. No one, and I mean, WOMEN too, has what is considered ‘unconditional love’ for another person, outside of their children. It’s all based on desires and needs. The moment that desire and need isn’t met consistently, that spouse is no longer as valuable to you. If you only think I’m some jerk, maybe you just aren’t willing to look at yourself in your truest form and are still living a fantasy world, or you are incapable of doing so.

June 1, 2009 at 5:20 pm
(17) Audrey says:

When I was first married I was very threatened by my husband’s interest in porn. He didn’t try to hide it from me but rather tried to share honestly his experience. We tried a couple of times to watch an “adult” movie together but it honestly turned me off. I enjoy sex but don’t go into the fake ecstasies and 20-minute long orgasms that porn actresses do. It just doesn’t seem real to me, and in addition I like a little bit of romance and tenderness in the mix, something I think many women can relate to. A lot of porn movies are just too graphic and — how do I put it — too unfeeling for me. My husband, on the other hand, needs some of that rough and graphic kind of stimulation.

I didn’t and don’t insist that he stop looking a porn though. We’ve talked about it and I realize that he is perfectly capable of telling the difference between fantasy and reality, and doesn’t get them mixed up. I am still #1 in his life. He does like to feel that he is giving pleasure as well as getting it, and my showing some enthusiasm is very stimulating for him.
I also have to admit that I occasionally have sexual fantasies too, though probably not as often as he does. He says that he does not want to know about those fantasies, though–he gets a little jealous just like I do.

I don’t agree with Phil C. on a number of points, though. I am not a young woman anymore and although I was beautiful when I was I don’t feel I am as attractive now. That’s inevitable with time. But–here’s where I agree with the feminists–I refuse to spend my life in a pathetic quest to restore my youth. I will not get face lifts and boob lifts and plastic surgery and all the things you have to do in order to try to compete with younger women (including porn stars) and which usually don’t work anyway. I do not see that men’s attraction to physical beauty should absolutely dictate how I behave in life. If some of them don’t think I am completely and totally a worthy sex object (because of my age or other physical attributes) that’s just too bad.

I’m confident that my husband loves me, no matter whether he likes to look at beautiful young women in fantasy or not. His whole life he has always been attracted to older women and he hasn’t changed in that. We are happy together, and if he occasionally likes to look at a nice rear end or set of breasts on some porn site it doesn’t bother me. I am confident of his fidelity. Besides, he isn’t a powerful, alpha-male, high status multi-millionaire and he knows it, and doesn’t imagine he could sweep a supermodel off her feet if he should meet one. Living happily with reality is the best life.

June 5, 2009 at 4:08 pm
(18) Phil C says:

Audrey,

I think you missed the point I was making, actually, I think you made up something that wasn’t there. Never once did I say a woman should get plastic surgery, boob jobs, etc…nor did I say a woman should let a man’s desire for physical beauty dictate how she lives her life.

What I am simply stating is that life isn’t too complicated. If you as a woman do not take care of yourself (mostly meaning weight by diet and excercise), then do not be surprised when your husband or significant other looks at porn for that type of stimulation. Instead, the problem I have with feminists is that they insist that men must change how we view women.

Why can’t women just ACCEPT it as how we are and move on? If you don’t care about a guy’s attention, affection, don’t worry about it. If you do, then maybe you ought to take better care of yourself, instead of trying to complain about what men think or act like.

I have a friend, a nice guy, a smart guy, decent looking guy, though no Brad Pitt. He’s been without a job for a little while. Surprisingly enough, he also happens to be without a girlfriend for a while.

Now, when my wife starts talking to her friends about ‘setting them up’, no matter how good a guy she feels he is, she simply will not mention him as a possiblity. Why? Women want security. Women DON’T want a guy who is jobless for financial and/or ‘laziness’ reasons.

So, essentially, that means that women have criteria for guys, too, and are not willing to even consider a guy who doesn’t meet their criteria.

And I don’t see a male activist group coming to the forefront and saying that women need to change how they view men. No, the reality is, if my buddy wants a woman, he needs to change what he’s doing. That’s not any different than what I’m saying about women and how they look. And sorry, weight and body appearance is far more controllable than women (our society in general) like to admit.

Now that I’ve clarified that point, I’m interested in the other points you don’t agree with. I’m not trying to get into a battle, but I enjoy discussing these things, if you so wish.

June 6, 2009 at 1:37 pm
(19) AEonFlux says:

PhilC, your previous comments make very clear that you are a weightist. And while I agree that men (and women) are always going to be attracted to attractive people, your definition of what is attractive is sadly limited, and feminists who criticize the ways in which porn changes how men view women have some very good points.

First of all, women in porn films belong to a very small subset of people in terms of how they look–and that visual effect is augmented by both pre- and post-production techniques such as airbrushing, fake tanning and other artifical methods which give these women completely unattainable specs. Second, when our boys and men see these images, which are seeping into the mainstream with disturbing pervasiveness, they start to expect women to look like that every day, and to think less of women who can’t approach that unrealistic ideal. Similarly, the sexual acts and attitudes toward women that are portrayed in pornography are often blatantly demeaning to women, which would not be such a problem if there was an equally powerful media force that promoted a more positive view of women and their sexuality.

I don’t begrudge anyone the images or erotica that help them get turned on or stay satisfied. I have myself watched the odd adult film, etc. and so cannot honestly criticize them without being a hypocrite. However, if we ignore the messages they contain, or pretend they don’t contain them, or that they don’t have the power to affect public attitudes, we create a space for those attitudes to take hold of us while we aren’t looking and shrug off the responsibility of cultivating more tolerant, inclusive views.

As for women taking care of themselves? It seems you’re saying that women who don’t fit into a certain demographic (the one that appeals to you) aren’t worthy to be considered sexy or loveable and that women should devote much of their precious time and energy to conforming to those very narrow standards. Perhaps we have better things to do with our time, like pursuing advanced academic degrees, building careers, developing our creative talents, or simply being present in the world. Or perhaps we simply refuse to spend a lifetime denying ourselves the sensual enjoyment of good food, or spending grueling hours on a treadmill rather than reading a good book. What good is model-beauty if the personality beneath is dead-boring and weight obsessed? I notice, when looking at the prime time sitcoms on American television, that the husbands tend to be fat, bumbling buffoons with lovely, thin, intelligent and successful wives. Are these the men we women are supposed to be grooming ourselves for? Some prizes. Women do have standards as well, sometimes that includes a job, but those standards aren’t the same for all or even most women, and it’s not about the security, even when the job is a factor. I personally wish to date men with jobs because that’s an indicator of many other factors: their self-sufficience, their interest in something outside themself–and because men so often define themselves, at least partially, by what they do, their self-worth is often wrapped up in their job and suffers when they are unemployed.

I don’t pretend to speak for men and I don’t even presume to speak for all women, but perfect bodies are not the only attributes which attract men to women and vice versa. I’m sorry for you that your criteria for what is attractive in a woman are so limited–you’re missing out on a whole spectrum of enjoyment. Luckily for the rest of the world, standards of beauty aren’t always so homogenous and narrow.

As for your final thoughts on how controllable weight is for other people–well, PhilC, if it WERE that easy, why wouldn’t more people be successful? Your singularly unsympathetic comments on weight and its management indicate are somewhat ignorant and totally intolerant. It is a fact that in the United States it costs more to eat healthy, as cheaper foods are usually the over-processed empty calorie fare that contributes to weight gain. Similarly, access to a gym, a sports facility, the free time to spend working out, also come with implications of affordability. Aside from the class issues this raises, are other scientific data, including the two different species of bacteria that live in human guts, one found primarily in thin folks, the other in fat, which produce a negative feedback loop that locks the person into a self-perpetuating cycle of digestion that helps ensure that the thin stay thin and the fat stay fat.

Other people on this forum seem to be trying to increase understanding among men and women, and affecting change for the better. It is arrogant to ask women to just accept that men are the way they are and to discourage them from asking for what they want and trying to reach a compromise. Should we just have accepted that men got to vote and we didn’t? Should we just accept that men get paid more than we for exactly the same work? I argue that we should not, and that we should not settle for a society that asks us to define ourselves and our worth as people and partners based solely on how we look.

June 8, 2009 at 4:11 pm
(20) PhilC says:

Aeonflux,

Maybe instead of assuming what I’m saying (indicating I’m a ‘weightist’, even though you know nothing about me?, pretty immature, I promise), maybe you need to let some of your feminist ideals go and take it for what I said, and have always said.

#1) I do NOT under any circumstance indicate that women NEED to work on trying to be beautiful for men. My only point is, if you determine that a relationship that includes a good man is part of what you wish for in life, don’t be surprised if you aren’t noticed, or aren’t approached as often as a more physically attractive woman, if YOU DECIDE NOT TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. Or, if you wish your situation to change, you can indeed change it, more times than not. I’m not going to go into heredity, big bone, etc…problems for women. If those things are the cause of being overweight, there might not be much you can do. I’m not ‘weightist’. I’m what most people outside of the jealous, bitter feminist society would call ‘realist’.

#2) I never advocated looking like porn women, and I’m CERTAINLY not indicating the ‘airbrush’ effects of models is what men find so appealing. Simply put, a 220 lb woman is not going to look like a 115 lb supermodel with some airbrushing. I’m not advocating the ‘Barbie’ look, or unrealistic expectations on women. However, it is an undeniable fact of life, there simply is NO WAY AROUND IT, men are attracted to physical beauty. And there are so many variations of what that includes, however, MOST men (and I will never say I speak for all men) have similar beliefs.

Here’s the problem I have, and I thank you for proving my point. You are, as I indicated above, part of the problem in society. I don’t give a damn if what I desire is big breasts, small waistes and tone butts. Who cares? I don’t condemn you for your ‘shallow’ views. After all, you have indicated that you insist on a man with a job (big surprise). That in fact, is just as shallow as what you perceive my desires for a woman to be. The difference is, I don’t have a support group trying to change what you want of a partner. To me, that’s your choice.

So I exclude based on weight, you exclude based on employment. Who’s more shallow?

See, in your narrow mind, I’m more shallow, only because you are unwilling to see your own views as merely your own, and not ‘righteous’. I’m intelligent enough to see my views as ‘my views’, and don’t try to indicate that other views need to match my own.

And here’s the other problem. You have no idea of what my ‘other’ criteria are for a woman. You never cared to ask, you only assumed. So, in your mind, I only care about boobs, butts and that’s it. However, I look at that as only an initial filter. Why not? If I’m not attracted to someone, why continue?

You can come across a perfectly attractive man who has intelligence, personality, confidence, a great attitude, sense of humor but was bit by a tough economy in which he can’t find a job. Your filter has already sent him packing, because of how you think he’s going to be. Pretty shallow. You may never even take the time to find out about his other qualities.

At least (most of) the women that I may overlook have control over how they appear. It’s absolutely true most, man or woman, can stay HEALTHY (or did you forget about the health problems of overweight people)and in some sort of shape by working out and eating properly. I’m not saying it’s easy. Boy, do I enjoy a good pizza. However, it’s still ultimately up to us to look how we want, at least our bodies.

I don’t see the NFL calling me and giving me a chance to play for them. I never worked hard enough to become a great player. That was my choice, I can’t complain about it afterward…see, that’s the truth of how men generally view things and how women generally view things. Men make choices on how to live their life, and then more times than not, they accept the consequences. Women make choices (not being careful what they eat, how they work out), and they end up blaming others (men’s views of women) on why they suddenly can’t find a man who’s attracted to them. Doesn’t make any sense.

And, don’t try to overcomplicate things, or try to change what women need. Women need security. It doesn’t have to be financial security, it can be emotional, physical, whatever. How is it that a common answer to the question ‘why do you love him’ is ‘he makes me feel good’. That’s security, no matter how you wish to view it.

See, I think the problem is, as I stated originally, the feminist viewpoint is that THEIR WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY. Sorry, that’s so screwed up, and does NOTHING for society. Now, I absolutely agree that some of the original feminist ideals were very necessary. (But, you’ll skip right past this part in your rebuttal, I’m sure of it). I’ve never advocated that women not being able to vote was the right way to go. Absolutely not. However, in today’s age of TRYING to get women to feel equal, feminists are actually going the opposite way. They’re trying to blame men, and trying to change how men view things. This is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. Putting others down so you feel good about yourself is not the answer.

Sorry for a reality check, women DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWERS. They may have the answers for what they think, but they cannot judge men for thinking differently, which is all I ever stated to begin with.

Ultimately, the whole point of this is…men want beauty. Women want whatever they want. If I am a man who wants a woman, I will fail to land a woman if I don’t provide her what she wants and desires. If I am a woman who wants a man, I will fail to land a man if I don’t provide him what he wants and desires.

It’s no more complicated than that. The biggest problem is, it’s socially acceptable for women to have their criteria, but not for men to have their criteria without it coming under fire by feminist groups.

There’s no way an intelligent, self-thinking human being who isn’t bitter can look at that and say that’s fair or right.

How is it that you can?

June 8, 2009 at 8:02 pm
(21) Mia says:

Okay, so Am I to understand that infedelity, porn addiction, and just being plain lazy and unwilling to do the work that can satisfy both parties is okay, because they are men and that is the way God made them??? So here is what I say, I have been a faithfull wife of three years, and my husband isn’t as intrested in sex as I am, i have a crazy sex drive and it just keeps growing, since it is okay for men to be unfaithfull, and addicted to porn, why should I worry when a guy expresses intrest in me and I welcome it?! I dont condone infidelity, but if someone is not giving me the sexual stimulation that I am looking for, I am going to find it else where right?? That is what men do…If my husband can do it, so can I, and if he’s not happy with the outcome then he has only himself to blame. I have asked and spoke about it, I have been understanding, watched porn with him and still he looked elsewhere.. so here is what I am saying, classes on marriages, psycological bulls***, and everything else that “DRs” want to meddle in, is crap, crap, crap, I am not a fool, if you want to play, let’s play, I will end up on top ( figurativily speaking )

June 10, 2009 at 12:31 am
(22) sadlyugly says:

Tough luck… what happens when you’re NATURALLY ugly, like me? I’m not a feminist. I’m not overweight. I’m just ugly. I keep my weight low, I brush my teeth, comb my hair, even wear some make up, but my face is unattractive. Then what? What, eh? at least an unemployed man can eventually get a job, and I, at least wouldn’t really mind because I HATE depending on others so as long as I have a job, then it’s all good.

But apparently you have to be PORN STAR beautiful to find a guy. What if you aren’t?

June 10, 2009 at 11:51 am
(23) PhilC says:

Mia,

You maybe could try calming down a bit. You seem a bit confused. Looking at porn is not cheating. If you wish to look at it like that, that’s your problem. However, you also have helped prove my point in your post. Your first initial reaction is to ASSUME that looking at porn = laziness, and an unwillingness to work to make both parties happy. And of course, YOU ARE ONLY BLAMING YOUR HUSBAND. Having as much interaction with women as I’ve had (I’m not bragging on sexuality, I mean discussions), I can guess you haven’t looked in the mirror (figuratively) and asked what if there’s anything you can do for him. I’m not saying you need to look down on yourself and start questioning if you’re a good wife, but maybe just tweaking something here or there could do wonders. In other words, maybe you should try to have sex with him, on HIS terms. For him, not for you. See if that helps, instead of automatically blaming him, calling him lazy, etc…

And, maybe his lack of interest in sex is due to being overweight. I’m not judging you, I’m not saying you are overweight. However, if you are, isn’t it better to lose some weight than to lose your marriage? This is not putting men above women. It’s putting your husband’s needs ahead of your own. Which all wives should do. Just as all husbands should put their wives ahead of themselves. I mean, if you truly love the person you’ve married, is it better to be TOO PROUD to change your weight, just for the sake of making some stupid feminist group happy, or to lose your weight to make the person you’ve committed your life to, happy?
I think the answer’s obvious. And if it’s not, that’s a REALLY sad state of how women view things.

June 10, 2009 at 12:21 pm
(24) PhilC says:

Sadlyugly,

Again, as I’ve stated in all of my posts, I have never indicated you need to look like a pornstar to find a guy, maybe you should read what’s written instead of emotionally respond to what you think I’ve said. I have said all along that men find many different forms of women attractive. It just so happens that ALMOST ALL men find women in porn attractive, because they are in shape, they do have some similar features that men find pretty. Plus, they’re having sex, and willing to show everything, what guy wouldn’t want to see that?

Anyway, to your question. Attractiveness when it comes to sex, is based on your body. If you happen to meet a guy and can attract him by your personality you should have no problems. Men filter based on attractiveness, but they take the body into account. That might be the most important part, since sex is ultimately the goal for men. If you come across as having a less than stellar personality, the less than attractive face will definitely come into play. But if you appear to be a really fun chick, guys will notice less and you can then attract based on your personality and your body. As I’ve said all along, the beauty is a filter, an initial filter, but not the ONLY thing guys look at.

That overgeneralization is a product of feministic views. Once a guy says he doesn’t think a girl’s pretty enough, it’s automatically assumed he just cares about beauty and nothing else.

Anyway, back on track. The sad truth of the matter is, though, that you MAY have a hard time finding a good guy that you also find attractive. I say it’s not impossible, but it could be hard. But before you start hating men due to this, think about the guy in your situation, but he’s there due to lack of confidence. For most women, jobs are a must, and you’re right, a job situation CAN change. But a good guy who, through no fault of his own, might have low self-esteem. Now, he can’t find a woman to have any interest in him, no matter how interesting he is, or how well he’ll treat you. Why? Women look for guys who stick out, and a shy guy without a lot of bravado certainly doesn’t stick out. How is he to gain confidence?

But again, I don’t see groups coming to the forefront and demanding that women change their criteria for what they find attractive. For those guys, they’re SOL, and there’s not much they can do about it. Most women don’t feel bad, or care enough to change their criteria.

My point is, women need to be more accepting of men, as they are. Once you do this, you’ll find you won’t be so frustrated with life, you’ll have better relationships with your spouse, and we won’t have all of these fing discussions taking up so much of our time. It’s all of the trying to change how men view things that is causing a lot of problems. Men don’t want or need to change how they view things. They might be willing to, if they knew women were going to change to accomodate them. However, we all know you aren’t willing to do that. So, we’re not going to change, it’s that simple. And we shouldn’t, no matter how much you think we should. You’re wrong if you do.

June 10, 2009 at 5:02 pm
(25) PhilC says:

Answer me this, women posters who refuse to acknowledge the truth:

In all of your quests to change men, in all of your quests to insist that their way is somehow wrong, disgusting, etc…tell me what women have done in the past 50 years to change for OUR benefit?

I’ll wait. Can’t think of anything. Has it occured to any of you feminists out there, that there has been TREMENDOUS change of attitude toward women, from men over the past 30 40 years? God, I can’t even get any of you who read my posts to admit you might be a bit narrow-minded when it comes to differences of men and women.

Now think of this, and it will prove my point, if you are willing to allow it to: In today’s society, there are questions of whether a woman should accept her man’s name in marriage. It’s an old tradition, but it’s based on symbolism. I say she should, it’s her symbol of love for her husband. But I also say if it’s a problem for her, because of her feminist views, then she has every right to say she doesn’t want to take the name.

However, that also means she should voluntarily tell her husband to be that she doesn’t want an engagement ring. After all, the engagement ring is nothing more than a symbol of his love to his wife. If she expects that he respect her and love her despite her standing up against tradition, then she should show him that she loves him despite the fact that he also stands up against tradition.

Oddly enough, I know a few women who have kept their names. Strange, though, I remember seeing some awful gawdy diamonds on those fingers…hmmmm…that’s hypocrisy at best, and I’m being very nice.

Unfortunately, I know the response to this. Most women will tell me I’m crazy, it’s not the same. That’s only because you don’t want it to be the same. But it is. Problem is, most of you women who want to change men’s views all the time aren’t willing to look at your own views, look at the things men do for you that you take for granted, and make a true COMPROMISE, by giving those things up.

You still yearn and expect chivalry, even though you no longer earn it. Chivalry was given as a gift to you because of what you were giving to men, in terms of attitude. You ripped that away, and yet you still seem to think you have a birth-rite for men to still be chivalrous to you. Men have already changed most of the wrongs that were present years ago. It’s time you either accept it and move on or if you wish continued change for your benefit, decide what you’re going to change of yourselves for our benefit (sorry to bruise your sensitive egos, but you don’t exactly do everything right to make us happy ya know)

June 11, 2009 at 11:13 am
(26) Becs says:

Ummm, Phil C…you’re really coming across as a sad, bitter man who feels threatened by women who want to exist for more than a man’s sexual satisfaction.
Paragraphs of text isn’t going to change this perception – you may sound logical and well-phrased, but at the end of the day you still have issues…
You come across as sexist, believing that women are the property of a man, and that men have the right to behave with absolutely no respect and still get what they want.
That’s a very childish view of the world. I suggest you grow up and get a life.

June 11, 2009 at 1:07 pm
(27) PhilC says:

that’s funny Becs.

Actually, anyone with a brain can read and re-read my text and see I have never indicated once that a woman is there strictly for a man’s sexual desires, or are his property.

You, again, by your emotional response of what you think I mean (vs. what I actually say), help prove my point on women. That point is, that their views are very narrow-minded and very dangerous. They believe that any view outside of their own is wrong and needs to change to meet their own point. Hitler thought that, too. So did Joseph Stalin. It’s a dangerous way of thinking.

Maybe you should learn to read or better yet, learn to NOT read into something that’s not there. If you can point to me where I make such statements, please do.

I’ll admit my last post was born of frustration, the others were not. No doubt. However, for you, Becs, to judge me completely and utterly based on a post that says NOTHING of what you think it says, shows a lot more of your own childish and narrow-minded thinking than it does of me.

June 11, 2009 at 3:31 pm
(28) PhilC says:

Ladies,

Though long-winded I am (can you REALLY have a simple 10 word discussion on men and women?), please take this into consideration before the venom comes spewing out even more than it already has:

I am all for change. I do not, cannot, and will not advocate men changing for women without women changing for men. And that’s the point. So, if you feel men need to change what they want and desire of a mate, be prepared to change what you want and desire of a mate. If you are unwilling to do so, how can you expect that of someone else?

It’s no more complicated than that, regardless if it hurts your feelings or not, or it’s something you don’t understand.

Back to my name-change / engagement ring argument. The whole point of the argument is that women ask men to change long-time standing traditions, and then insist so by saying ‘if you love and respect ME, you will do it.’ Ok. I’ve said all along that’s perfectly fine. Isn’t that respectful of women? Of course it is. Of course, you all skip over that when commenting, but what should I expect?

If I was asked that by my wife, I would have had no problems doing so…but only IF she could accept that I don’t feel it’s necessary to show my love by spending my money on a diamond. After all, that is nothing more than a symbol of a long-standing tradition. How can a marriage be successful if only ONE partner is making sacrifices for the sake of the other, but it is not reciprocated(sp?)

In my example, the wife would be showing that she doesn’t care about the ring, and that her love isn’t tied to some shiny thing that she can show off to her friends.

Unfortunately, many women view the ring and the ceremony as the single most important piece of marriage. If that isn’t screwed up, what is? If a woman truly loves a man, she could love him without the ring, without the ceremony, without the dream house (or some form of), and yes, even without the baby.

But I know 98% of the women in this country would never do that for the sake of her husband…which leads to the point I was making to begin with:

If you ‘love’ us for what we provide for you, no matter what it is, then shouldn’t we ‘love’ you for what you provide us, no matter what it is? The answer is ‘yes’.

It’s not unconditional love after all. It’s ‘love’ for a purpose. Isn’t that the very thing you complain about men doing?

How is this so hard to understand? I’m not looking to knock women. I’ve already indicated I am fully for changing men’s mindset and behavior, as long as it’s reciprocated. That’s not shallow at all. As a matter of fact, that’s pretty enlightened. Unfortunately, I’ve only seen posts that aren’t so enlightened. They’re selfish. They want only change that will benefit themselves.

It reminds me of the girl that uses the Bible to protect herself and suggest to her boyfriend that she’s saving sex for marriage because that’s what God wants. That’s fine, she has every right to do so.

However, that same girl doesn’t acknowledge the Bible also says women should be submissive to men. Now, I’m not going to get into the argument about bible being right or wrong, I’m using it to show that if you’re going to take a piece of the bible for your benefit, you better be prepared to take the bible for ALL of it, even when it doesn’t benefit you. Otherwise, you’d be a big hypocrite.

Make the connection to the rest of my post. It’s the same thing.

June 11, 2009 at 5:08 pm
(29) sadlyugly says:

Why does a woman have to change for a man? Or at least change first… you’re saying that before we ask men to change, we must change first. What gives men the privilege of waiting to change?! I mean I’m not a feminist, but I guess that even if it’s harder, change has to come from both parties at the same time. It’s like if you had a girlfriend and you went bungee jumping and told her to go first, to see if she falls and dies, and if she does then you don’t jump. Gives a WHOLE new meaning to “ladies first”.

Look, I get it, men hate feminists. But that doesn’t mean all women are the same. Plus, feminism isn’t even about relationships and all that. From what I know it goes well beyond that. And maybe feminists haven’t done anything for the benefit of men, but hey, THEY HAVE HELPED US A FREAKING LOT! Now we get to vote, now we get to earn a degree, now we get to be CEOs, now we earn almost as much as men.

I admit I haven’t read your whole posts, and I admit the paragraph above is a bit off topic. It was just meant to state that feminism has almost nothing to do with relationships.

Now, you didn’t imply that we have to be porn star attractive, but from what you stated, it can be concluded that it is the preferred “body type” for men. I may not be fat, but my body isn’t spectacular either. I don’t have huge boobs. And guys don’t look at me, despite my efforts for at least looking clean and decent. It’s genes, what can I do? Physically, I will never be as “beautiful” as a porn star. Because you say that “you don’t need to look like them to be considered attractive”, but, that implies that their attractiveness is superior than that of normal women. Thus, why some of us feel bad. In my case I can say, that if pressure is put on us to be beautiful, and if attractiveness is higly valued and desired in women, then I won’t feel good about myself if I don’t feel that what I’m doing is right. And I’m not doing it right, because the ideal is very far from who I am and what I look like. (Hope this makes sense, English isn’t my first language).

And hey, allow me to say, but men are way less forgiving of physical flaws. Or maybe it’s me. I’m not that shallow form what I’ve gathered.

I’ve been told I have awful taste in men (even by other guys, go figure), because, they say, I always go for the ugly, low profile ones. But I don’t care. I hate guys with huge egos and a lot of bravado. Most girls don’t like these guys, they are usually players anyway. Most like a decent looking, caring guy. Someone who’s there. Not prince charming. Just someone who listens and cuddles you every once in a while. We’re not asking you to stop watching the game (hell, I like watching the game!), drinking beer (ditto) or hanging out with your guys (we need space too!!!!). You don’t have to look like a male model (they look gay anyway, practically hairless). You don’t have to have “bravado” and tons of money. That’s a stereotype that men’s magazines sell.

Or maybe I’m the weird woman out of all women in the world? I just want someone I can share my interests with (music, art, literature, sports, you get they type). You know what I do when I have some extra cash? I either buy something for my guitar, or save it. I never spend small fortunes on shoes, in fact I hate even window shopping, because IT’S BORING!

” But a good guy who, through no fault of his own, might have low self-esteem. Now, he can’t find a woman to have any interest in him, no matter how interesting he is, or how well he’ll treat you. Why? Women look for guys who stick out, and a shy guy without a lot of bravado certainly doesn’t stick out. How is he to gain confidence?

But again, I don’t see groups coming to the forefront and demanding that women change their criteria for what they find attractive. For those guys, they’re SOL, and there’s not much they can do about it. Most women don’t feel bad, or care enough to change their criteria. ”

Anyway, a guy doesn’t need to have heaps of confidence. Plus, the same could be said about a girl with no confidence, right? But then, of course, she’d have to change if she wanted someone to take notice of her. Also, men don’t change their criteria either, so why should we? You are the typical guy who blames everything into women. Sure, we’re to blame for some stuff, but so are you. You’re the typical guy who victimizes men. Yet I bet if a woman came along and told you all of this but had a “great rack” you’d listen and be polite, only to see if you could “bang” her later.

I am ugly. I can’t change it. Men don’t notice me because they’re shallow. I deserve being wanted and loved as much as any other woman. And I shouldn’t have to change first so a guy would accept me. Why should I change first? I don’t get it. Please, why women first, explain that.

June 11, 2009 at 5:11 pm
(30) sadlyugly says:

Oh, and by the way, maybe American women are different, but everything that you’re saying reads like a collection of sad stereotypes of how women have been portrayed over and over, and while yes, there are many “bridezillas” and such around, most women are level-headed enough to think well beyond that! We have BRAINS, we THINK, we can be as DEEP as guys can be…

June 12, 2009 at 10:08 am
(31) PhilC says:

Sadugly,

I appreciate you taking the time to actually engage in a conversation, something these other women posters aren’t willing to do, mostly because they’re afraid of being proven wrong.

First of all, I never said women should change first, I said women should change also.

Second, women SHOULD change first. It’s not actually first, though. See, like most women you are completely taking for granted the fact that men HAVE CHANGED, quite dramatically over the years. I find it HILARIOUS

As far as feminists go, as I have stated in another post, I have no problems with the original idea of feminism. It was necessary. However, it has gone way out of hand. I don’t expect feminists to try to do anything for men. However, they use the idea of ‘equality’ as their reason for change. What happens when things ARE equal, and you still try to change more? That’s more like ‘control’, not ‘equality’. And that’s the problem I have. As I’ve stated before, men have changed their views a ton over the past 40 – 50 years. No matter how bitter or angry you may be at men, you can’t say the same of women. You have a society of men who have accepted women like the feminists wanted, but you still have women who expect chivalry. That doesn’t make sense. Chivalry was born because of how things WERE. The old roles, the old way of thinking. It was a gift to women, because women gave us gifts with their submissive behavior. However, that submissive behavior is gone. Chivalry, by the same reasoning SHOULD be gone. If we’re equal, there should be no putting women above men in ANYTHING. They don’t deserve that type of special treatment. See, part of the problem is, women aren’t willing to let go of some of those nice things that they enjoyed about how men acted. Now, we’re all the same. We’re robots like feminists wanted. Fine. Don’t complain about it. Accept it.

June 12, 2009 at 11:06 am
(32) PhilC says:

Forget that last post. I was writing down ideas and was going to make it more coherent as I went along, but accidentally posted it before it was done.

Anyway, to continue what I was saying and try to clarify, I find it HILARIOUS and yet sad at the same time, that women complain so much about men’s attitudes, yet the majority of men GAVE you that freedom, GAVE you that right to vote, changed their views. Before you get all crazy on me about that, think about this. If there were NO MEN who agreed with what the feminists were trying to do, considering men had all the power, do you really think these changes would have occured? The answer is OF COURSE NOT!! Men, the same men you complain and b@tch about, were willing to look at how things were being done, and adapted to what was more appropriate. I’m not discounting the efforts of women to raise the awareness of men, but the absolute truth is, none of it would have been accomplished without men. And yet, feminists still only continue to cry and complain about men.

Why don’t you look in the mirror and ask, ok, since men have changed their views over the past 40 years, why don’t we be ‘man’ enough to change some of our views? It hasn’t happened. Women in this country still expect chivalry. There’s no reason for it. As I stated before, chivalry was a gift. Your grandmothers deserved chivalry. You and this generation do not. Chivalry isn’t a birth rite that women have. Chivalry was GIVEN to you. As women, you can start with that.

Onto your next topic. You, I’m afraid, ARE just as shallow as men. Only, you don’t think you are, because you can’t make the connection (or at least you haven’t so far) that your way isn’t necessarily the right way. It works for you, but then other people’s way works for them. Who are you to judge? Your view is no more ‘loving and caring’ than my view.

You say you don’t judge a guy based on his appearance. Fine. That’s your criteria. But you do judge him based on something else. In either way, ANYTIME ANYONE filters out a person due to something that person does or does not provide for them, it’s shallow. Maybe for you, you’re looking for a sensitive guy. Or a funny guy. A confident guy. An intelligent guy. Ok. Good for you. That’s your choice. But that’s shallow. There’s plenty of GOOD guys who aren’t sensitive or who aren’t funny that you’re excluding. But that’s your choice.

Sensitivity or humor or confidence or intelligence aren’t the only criteria for what makes a good person. See, deep down, there are REASONS why some men aren’t sensitive or humorous or even intelligent. Some people are born with more intelligence than others. Is that the fault of the lesser intelligent person? Is it their fault they have no confidence?

However, you don’t care about those reasons, you only know that the guy you are currently looking at doesn’t meet those criteria, so you aren’t going to be interested. How is it any different when men do the same about women? Again, who the hell are you to judge and call someone else shallow? That sounds pretty self-righteous of you to suggest you aren’t shallow, yet others are.

And, sorry, maybe you need to admit that women do NOT want what you say they want…just a nice guy who treats them well, blah, blah, blah. Oh, that all sounds good, and it makes you all feel better about yourselves. Hey, men want that too. But, just like men, those are your SECONDARY traits you are looking for. Those things you look for, are only when the first criteria is met, your initial filter. As I stated before, you never even get to that secondary trait if the first criteria isn’t met. For men, it’s physical attractiveness, for women it’s confidence or money or looks, usually.

I’ll give you an example, and please bear with me, there is a point to make. I listened to Howard Stern (oh, god, yes, that terrible anti-christ most of you women think he is) and he had a couple actresses on. Of course, they were beautiful and successful. They were talking about David Spade. Apparantly, the guy was one of the biggest Don Juan studs in Hollywood. None of them, even women who he had broken up with had anything negative to say about him. Stern asked the actresses about what makes him so attractive to all the women. They all said his sense of humor.

Ok. Now, if you believe that is their ONLY criteria, then you’re naive or completely dumb. See, a sense of humor is present in MANY men, most of who are not rich and famous, maybe even some who are not that confident. I promise those same beautiful actresses would not be caught dead with any of those other men who have a wonderful sense of humor, because their initial filter of money, fame, confidence, whatever, would have never allowed them to find out whether he’s funny or not. Yet these actresses believed that that was their only criteria. Why? Maybe the first filter is so sub-conscious that it goes undetected, I don’t know. Or maybe they don’t want to admit the other criteria because it ‘sounds bad’ (that’s more believable). It ‘sounds shallow’ so they don’t list it. In other words, what you said about MOST WOMEN wanting in a man is simply not true. That is what they wish their man to be, but only when the first initial criteria is met. Understand? If you look at it truthfully, you will come to the same conclusion, and maybe, just maybe, you’ll realize what I’ve been saying all along. Women are just as shallow as men, except their shallowness is different. After all, I have NEVER (as most men have not) filtered a woman strictly based on whether she has a job, or whether she comes across as really confident. Sure, those are nice things to add, but I’m not shallow enough to restrict my choice of a mate to only those women. Does that make me less shallow than you?

June 12, 2009 at 11:18 am
(33) PhilC says:

SadlyUgly,

One more quick point on your post (yeah, I know, quick point and PhilC does not compute:)

You indicated that there is pressure on women to be beautiful because that’s men’s criteria. I agree there is. But there’s also pressure on men to be successful or confident, or sensitive, or whatever it is that women want. Those men who don’t meet the criteria of women are in the same boat as you are. They are left wondering about themselves (and if it’s confidence that they lack, how can you gain confidence, as you indicated, when you can’t feel good about yourself?). This is one area I do agree with feminists. You don’t need a man to feel good about yourself. Just as men don’t need a woman to feel good about themselves.

Don’t forget, even though most of the women posters aren’t willing to admit this because they have targeted me as their enemy, I’ve never said women should live for men. I’ve never said men should live for women. I’ve never said women’s life should be to please men. I’ve simply said that if you want to be in a relationship, there are certain things BOTH sides need to realize and accept of the other. If a relationship isn’t in your cards for whatever reason, don’t sweat it. While there’s plenty of good in a good relationship, there’s also plenty of agony, for both men and women, due to these differences. It’s during those times I, along with other men and I’m sure women, too, wish we were single.

June 12, 2009 at 2:21 pm
(34) sadlyugly says:

Ok, I’m done with this discussion. I’m only writing to say I acknowledge you wrote back, and only so you don’t think that I didn’t respond just because I’m a coward and have nothing else to say about your opinions.

I do have my opinions, but I’m done with the discussion. Since you seem like the type that likes to argue and prove a point, and always wants to have the last word, then I’ll give you that privilege. You have the last word.

Anyway, a friendly advice: if you dislike feminists so much, then don’t go to their websites or associate yourself with them. Just like women who don’t like porn should stay away from it and from the people that enjoy it, then save yourself some grief and do the same with feminists. Plenty of non-feminists or feminist-haters out there!

June 12, 2009 at 4:14 pm
(35) PhilC says:

I do like to prove a point. I like to have discussions. I like to have points proven to me. Usually the discussions are far more ‘in your face’ than just the weather, so they may end up in arguments. Arguments don’t phase me.

As I have stated before, I don’t hate feminists. They were very necessary, originally. The mistake I made was that I thought feminists were open-minded to something different. Something that would help the sexes. Maybe even ease a burden on both of them, so as to improve relations. I have learned something. I was wrong about my mis-guided faith in women.

June 17, 2009 at 11:08 am
(36) rosalind medendorp says:

So what if men enjoy watching pornography its quite healthy for any male to enjoy any visual stimulation , its not unrare these days for women to actually get down and enjoy watching the films as well,as long as these men can keep it to fantasy and not think of it as reality it can be kept as a normal healthy pastime.

June 27, 2009 at 7:25 pm
(37) Not Satisfied... says:

I understand guys need visual stimulation…but I can’t seem to get past that my man jerks off to other women. I feel like he wants to be with them, thus gets off by seeing them fck some guy who they believe is them??? Clearly, I want sex more than my boyfriend. So if and when he gets horny during the day, why can’t he wait for me to get home and have sex with me??? I don’t have to be in the mood if I know he wants to have sex. So there is no question as to when I’m ready, because I’m always ready. I feel like I am waiting on him to get horny, but if he already jerked off while I’m at work…when will we ever have sex!? anyone?

June 30, 2009 at 10:42 am
(38) PhilC says:

Not Satisfied,

I do not know your boyfriend, so I will do the best I can to give you my thoughts, if you wish to hear them.

Because men are stimulated visually, they get excited quickly, instantaneously. That also means they usually want relief quickly, instantaenously. Unlike many women, they do not want the wait, they do not want the tease, the longing, etc…as one of the male posters said, they want release so they can move on with the rest of their day.

Partially because men are problem solving oriented. If you’ve ever had a day where you wanted to vent to your boyfriend you’ll know what I mean. Chances are, you want to vent just to vent, and he wants to help solve your problem. He will listen, but then try to offer a solution, maybe at the point to add to your frustration, but it’s well-intentioned. The point I’m trying to make is that men see a ‘problem’ and they want to ‘solve’ it. Well, it’s the same for sexual experiences. We get horny, we want to take care of it now…solving our ‘problem’.

One thing I would suggest is to set aside some time when you’re both home together and set up an erotic type experience with him. Do whatever it is you know that turns him on, and then continue to ‘tease’ him for a while. Then, whatever it is that he likes best, finish things off that way.

You can talk to him about it first and find out what type of ‘fantasy’ he would like you to do. It’s important that for this time, you are doing something for him, not the other way around. I know it sounds selfish, but if you want him to learn the fun or excitement of waiting and anticipating (so it will work for you later on), then you’re going to have to make the experience as erotic physically and mentally for him as possible. Men are not going to want to wait unless there’s an incredibly erotic experience awaiting them.

Obviously, I can’t answer the how-to or specifics of this experience, that will have to be up to you two. But if he notices that you are giving of yourself to him in the way he wants (without feeling like you’re ‘judging’ him), and he finds it incredibly erotic, both physically and mentally, then he will remember that when he’s at home and starts to get horny. He’ll remember that experience and want to do it again. He’ll wait for you to get home from work. And of course, you can help guarantee this from him by leaving hints before you go to work that this is in store for him when you get home. Trust me, he won’t be able NOT to think about it all day long, and when you get home, he will probably ‘attack’ you right when you walk in the door!!!!

Basically, what you want to do is to get him to see the value of anticipation, long phases of excitement, and waiting for you to get home. After all, if the experience you provide for him is so far greater than what he can do for himself, he’ll wait.

I understand both sides of it. Wanting relief right away, and also wanting to have tremendous anticipation and build-up. The anticipation side of it is incredible, but it also might take some work on your part to get him to see this.

June 30, 2009 at 9:20 pm
(39) CaroJ says:

Interesting that PhilC seems to know what all men AND all women think.

We are not all the same. Phil does not have the same thoughts as every other man. You can’t say that men are first attracted to physical beauty. This may be true for some men, but it is certainly not true for all. If it were, only attractive women would be paired off and this is obviously not the case. And you can’t say, well, maybe they have an ugly face but a rocking bod. Again, obviously not true for many women who are in LTRs.
Also, that is a old myth that men are more visually stimulated than women. This has been disproven over and over again by reputable tests. But some men seem to get some sort of validation out of believing the myth. I don’t get it.
Next, porn is demeaning to women. Some is really, really, virulently, disgustingly anti-women. If men need that sort of thing to get off, then something is wrong with those men. But, again, I will not put all men in the porn “boat” because I know there are many, many men who do not need porn to prove their manliness. It’s especially despicable for a man to be in a committed relationship and get off to porn instead of waiting to share himself with a willing partner. That is cheating, pure and simple. It’s not about “taking care of a headache.” It’s way more personal than that.
It makes me sad that some men think women exist to be visually stimulating for them. One of the earlier posters said that (not his exact words, but pretty close.) These men can’t have real relationships with women if they can’t see that we don’t exist solely FOR them (and their viewing pleasure.)
Honestly, if I thought all men were like most of the men who posted here, I would become a Lesbian. Happily, though, I have met enough men who don’t have the views espoused here to restore some of my faith in MANkind.
Don’t bother leaving one of your diatribes for me, Phil. It won’t change my views, anymore than I know I won’t change yours. But I guess you love to air your rants against women in public.

July 1, 2009 at 10:29 am
(40) PhilC says:

CaroJ,

Wow. You really told me. I hope you feel better about yourself. What’s sad, is, I’d be happy to listen to a different view and am willing to re-think my stance, if there’s some intelligent fact-based reason to. Your emotional drivel is not, and only further reinforces my opinion. What’s worse, is you have stated that you WILL NOT change your mind. I love when dumb chicks help prove my point. Narrow-minded? who’s more narrow-minded than someone who exclaims ‘you will not change my opinion’? As I’ve said in the past, you are doing nothing but proving my point about how narrow minded women are. You’re also proving that no matter how many times I post EXACTLY what I mean, you, along with other mentally challenged women, continue to ignore and comment on what I actually write, and only comment on what you think I said. It would be wonderful to actually have a coversation with an intelligent woman. I know they exist. Unfortunately, they aren’t taking the time to post in here.

Randomly stating that I know what men and women want is just pure emotional garbage that you spew because you don’t want to take the time to think about what I say, and only want to assume what you think I mean. I’ve very clearly stated that I don’t speak for ALL men, simply most men. I’ve also very clearly stated that women should not and do not live for men’s viewing pleasure. How you get that in any of my posts is beyond me. You do prove my point, yet again, though.

See, YOU decide to make the connection between a man wanting physical beauty and sex (which he has a right to), and ‘men think women exist just for their viewing pleasure’.

I’ve simply stated that men want what they want. There’s nothing wrong with that. It doesn’t matter if you like it or not. Why? Women want what they want, and you don’t see men trying to change it, living in denial about it, or complaining about it all the time. Why? We’re intelligent enough to accept it as a fact of life, even if we don’t like it. You want what you want. If person A doesn’t provide you with what you want, then person A isn’t ‘worthy’ enough for you.
Why should it be any different for men?

Also, porn is in no way degrading to women. Women want sex. Men and women are having sex in porn. Maybe it’s not how YOU want to have sex, but who the f@ck are you to judge how others wish to have sex? Narrow minded. It’s a fantasy world. You want a real conversation about something? Try this on.

What makes porn degrading? I’m going to assume it’s because they are making women out to be everything that a man desires, and that the women in porn are doing for a man only what men want, and not what the women want. Ok. Based on THAT explanation, then Cinderella is EXTREMELY degrading to men. Any of your ‘princess’ stories are. Why? Well, Prince Charming’s whole existence is to be romantic (what women want, and what men could care less about) and to cater to the women’s every whim. That’s degrading in the same way porn is. If you can’t see that, you’re dumber than a damn rock. What’s the difference? You (women) take EVERYTHING for granted.

Stating that men are not attracted to physical beauty is simply just living in denial, I’m afraid. Now, some men do in fact date or marry less than attractive women. As I’ve stated in the past, attractiveness is the first filter. If you can get past that first filter because maybe you are friends, or whatever other reason and he can see you for the other things you are, then, yes, as I’ve stated before, there are other things men look for. (try reading, or is it your comprehension that is lacking?).

But don’t be so naive as to think just because you’re ugly and you have a man that he doesn’t wish you were more attractive. I PROMISE YOU, HE DOES! Any denial of it is just him wanting to make you feel good, end of story, no matter how convincing he is.

Men lie. Why? We lie because you make us lie. If you don’t believe me, tell me when any of you asks your man ‘do I look fat in this?’, and you do in fact, look fat in that dress, do you assume he shouldn’t tell you the truth? It’s a known fact, women do not want to hear the truth, or all holy hell will break loose. There are some women, I hope, I have to believe, that are willing to hear the truth, and are willing to accept the truth. But I haven’t seen it yet.

July 2, 2009 at 3:45 am
(41) atib says:

Phil c, mayb u can help me then,
been reading the thread and I am still confused…I am a young female, early 30s, i am 5’8 and 115 lbs(exercise 5days a wk) w augmented breast 32DDD to be exact…I get my nails done every 2wks, get facials and massages and everything u can imagine. By beauty standards I look like a Brunette Pamela Anderson. And to top it off I am a doctor (English is not my first language).
I am sexually open, do not need the foreplay every time, spontaneous and pretty much open in bed. I am in a new relationship w a very handsome man who also takes care of himself and as far as I knew we were very sexually compatible. I ask him about his fantasies and what he likes and he doesn’t reveal much. I even asked him if he goes on line for porn and he denied it saying he is not much into porn.
#days ago I accidentally found out that he visits several sex sites online (mostly extremely large breasted women), he denied i and then stated that its normal blah blah blah…so my question to you is, why would a man in a new relationship w an attractive women who takes care of herself and look even better than some of the porn stars out there, that is willing to give it to him any time, anywhere and is open sexually..then why the hell does he need to still look at porn and tell me its NORMAL????? Th thought of him getting excited over those nasty girls and having to look at that and fantasize about strangers makes me want to puke. Why? Where is this need coming from?

July 2, 2009 at 3:51 am
(42) atib says:

…i just think men cannot hav a monogamous relationship, they need to at least visualize themselves w strangers on a regular basis. Its cheaper and safer this way. May be its better to think all men are pigs and perverted….then life would be much easier:( I hate to have to imagine that my bf stroking himself 3x a wk w thougts of other women is normal and HEALTHY!

July 2, 2009 at 10:48 am
(43) PhilC says:

atib,

Thank you first of all for actually initiating a conversation with me, rather than just bashing me. You pose a good question.

#1, if he doesn’t want you, I’ll take ya! LOL. I’m not actually a huge Pamela Anderson fan, I usually like women who look more ‘real’, like the girl next door and not so fake. I’m not saying you do look fake, obviously since I can’t see you, but to me, Pamela does.

Anyway, as I have always said, I don’t speak for EVERY man. I think I speak for most, however, and there are a couple of things I can think of, without knowing him, so keep in mind that I’m giving you possible insights to how men generally think, not necessarily how your man specifically thinks.

As beautiful as you may be (I get the feeling you won’t be popular on this sight with the other women who post), that doesn’t mean a guy is going to stop looking and be sexually attracted to other women. See, you are hitting a bit better on a point I’ve been trying to make, and it gets glossed over by some of the insecure women who have been bashing me.

That point is, you call it ‘perverted and men being pigs’. That viewpoint of negativity is what the problem is. See, you’ve set it in your mind(s) that men liking visualization is ‘perverted’ (a guy wanting to look up a hot girl’s skirt). It’s not ‘perverted’, cuz that’s such a negative connotation. It’s how we’re wired. Without it, there would be no relationships. Without that desire, you wouldn’t have a relationship with a great guy, or a marriage to a great guy. It’s how we are, it’s what drives us to want a relationship to begin with. Without it, I’m sorry, we wouldn’t want a relationship with women. Too much hassle and too many differences.

If you could look at it as ‘men like visualization’ instead of ‘men are pigs or men are perverted’, doesn’t that sound a whole lot more accepting of how a guy is? Doesn’t it sound a whole lot more judgemental to say a guy’s ‘perverted’ when you are talking about a man’s natural instinct that he does not choose to have?

It’s like men calling women ‘dirty’ when they have their period. It’s natural, you don’t have a choice in it, and it’s not very accepting for us to make you feel bad about it, now is it?
Well, it’s the same thing with men and their desires. We shouldn’t be made to feel bad about it, cuz no matter what you do, it isn’t going to change or stop.

Anyway, the point is, because of that desire, it’s not just going to go away just because he’s in a relationship. The same reason he wanted you to begin with, doesn’t just automatically subside, because it’s not emotional. It’s sexual. If I see a pretty woman, I’m going to feel desire, regardless if I’m married or not. For many women, even if not all, a relationship is based on emotional gratification. Men don’t need that as much. At least not as our primary desire. You can’t expect it to change automatically once you are in a relationship.

Now, yes, I would think he’d prefer to use that sexual energy with you, but that’s where subtle differences within people comes into play. Maybe you’re too ‘easy’. I don’t mean that negatively, I personally would appreciate that openness, but just like some women, some guys want what they can’t have, or have to work hard to get.

As an idea, one that he would probably find incredibly erotic, ask him to come into the computer room with you. When he comes in, start looking at some of the sites with him. You don’t have to pay attention to them, but if you’re in there, ask him what he likes about it. If he likes a certain position or ‘sexual move’ they are doing, offer to do that with him right then and there. You’re taking his desires of what the people are doing on the screen and relaying that energy and desire toward you.

You have to understand something. A big thing of what I’m trying to get across. Men feel ‘dirty’ about how they feel, because of women’s perceptions (and public perception) “you’re perverted, you’re dirty, you’re a pig”, rather than acceptance of human differences. That perception will NOT make them change. It will only make them want to do it secretly, and may even cause rebellion to prove a point. You notice he couldn’t tell you he was looking at porn?
That’s because he knows you would somehow make that a negative thing. It’s not, and he’s NOT going to change it. He shouldn’t. Why not just accept it? The more accepting of it you are, the more likely he is to not care about it as much. It won’t be a ‘guilty pleasure’.

Think about a common theme among many women, I’m sure most of you would agree…if your mom or dad doesn’t like boyfriend A, you’re NOT going to change your mind, if it’s something you want. You’ll usually just sneak around with him. Some women do conform to what mom and dad want, but many don’t. See the connection? If you want something, disapproval from others won’t change it, it will only make you sneak around to get it.

But by being open to it, you’re allowing him to feel better about it. Then, yeah, he might still look at it, but he’ll feel a whole lot more willing to take that sexual energy and point it toward you, because he doesn’t feel bad about it.

Within all of my rambling, does that make sense?

July 2, 2009 at 2:35 pm
(44) PhilC says:

A point to make, also about a post from a jf above. She brings religion into this. I would whole-heartedly agree that there in a christian based relationship, there is no room for porn. However, if it’s TRULY christian, there’s also clear guidelines for women to be submissive to her husband.

Reason is, both the man and the woman are not focusing their attention on what the other person is doing, they are focusing their attention on what they are doing FOR GOD. For their Lord and Savior. The man, for his duties that the Lord calls upon him to do, would love and cherish his wife above all others, outside of Christ. That is what the Bible says he should do.

I know, most of you women are crying ‘AMEN’ to that. What hypocrisy. Cuz most of you would also conveniently forget the next part which clearly states the woman’s role in a relationship. She is to put her husband ABOVE herself and submit to him, help him, play a secondary role to him. She would be doing that because of her devotion to being a better christian, and that’s what God commands of her to do in a christian relationship, even if she doesn’t agree with it. God doesn’t say to watch and make sure the other person is doing their role. He says you should do your role, take care of your business first.

Wanted to point that out, because jf’s post above, while it could be very helpful, you must be careful not to be a complete hypocrit and use religion only as a way to break your man from porn. If you want the help of God, dedicating your life to Christ, you clearly need, as a woman, to be submissive to your man, among other things (that’s not the ONLY thing to do as a christian woman, but it’s part of). Ignoring that part would be more hypocritical than the pharacies of the time. You know, the people who Christ loudly and boldly put in their place while on earth? At least they could claim there was no precedence set.

But, if you don’t believe in the ‘submissive’ rule of the bible, then by default, you can’t believe in the immorality of porn, and use the bible as your backup.

My posts are simply for the standard, real life non-christian people who make up 98% of our country. For those who are true followers and believers in christianity, well, you probably aren’t on here to begin with.

July 2, 2009 at 8:27 pm
(45) CaroJay says:

OK. I said I wouldn’t return, but unfortunately left my laptop on with this page still on it. So, when I opened the lid, there it was… It was like a car crash, I couldn’t NOT look.

Phil, you don’t know S*it about me, but because I disagree vehemently with you, you choose to call me an idiot (or certainly words to that effect… I’m not going to re-read your piece of trash response to get the exact words you use.) I can assure you (although you obviously won’t believe me) I am a very intelligent person.
You are obviously a close-minded know-it-all. You may not claim to speak for all men, just MOST men! That’s just about as bad. You don’t know the minds of most men, and you certainly don’t know the minds of most women! You could argue that I don’t either… and that’s true. But I choose to believe that most people (including MEN) are good people. And if I believe that, I cannot believe that they judge women primarily on their looks. I know from the evidence I see everyday that this is not true. I also do not believe that men can’t be faithful to one woman, pyschologically as well as physically.
There is no such thing as hardwiring. Men are no more destined to choose women based on looks than women are. And women are not more romantically inclined… at least not naturally. Society may have pigeonholed us into these roles and believing that this is the natural way of “being” but it just myth.
Porn is degrading to women. I may not be a faithful viewer as you are, but I have read about what it contains (from various sources, including how routine viewers have described it). Horrible depictions of women being gangraped, having p*nises shoved down their throats until they choke and even worse which I will not go into. If you think there is nothing wrogn with these depictions, you are one sick f$ck (hey, you used that term first).
I know I am kind of rambling here. I am angry. And no, that does not make me any more ruled by my “emotions” than your diatribe has proved you to be. That word “emotional” is used to imply women cannot think rationally. Obviously, that is no more fair than saying men can’t think straight because they are ruled by testosterone.
You obviously have a lot of rage to get out and need to justify your actions by saying that this isthe way that most men are. YOU are the way you are but don’t try to bring the rest of your gender down to your level.
I could refute your points one by one, but I have wasted enough of my time on you and you are so long-winded it would take for-freaking-ever.
Now, I am going to close this web page and never reopen it. Feel free to engage in your rants against women (‘oh why can’t women be more like men”… pretty much sums up your theme). I would stop you if I could, but I don’t have that power.
Thank goodness there are some (most) good men out there. You sure as hell aren’t one of them.

July 6, 2009 at 11:42 am
(46) PhilC says:

CaroJ,

You’ve already said enough. You’re close-minded, I get that. You think you’re intelligent, however, you fail to grasp really simple concepts. You just say ‘diatribe’ twice so you can feel like you’re smart. Good job. These concepts just take a little effort to think about, and you’d see I’m right.

You are right about one thing, I’m a bit long-winded. That makes for a hard read. I will try to shorten and still get my point across.

First, the porn you describe is rather crude and disgusting, for my tastes. I don’t care about that porn. I don’t judge others who do, that’s their thing. Narrow-minded as you continue to prove of yourself, however, is assuming that is ALL porn. There are many forms of porn, and I promise, all of it is not as you describe. It’s out there for those who care to view it, sure, but that’s not all porn. So, porn, in general, is not degrading to women. If you would just take a deep breath and calm down, you’d realize that.

Again, no more a narrow mind than one that screams out ‘I will not look at your viewpoint again because I’m right’. You miss SOOO much of what I write because you are acting on emotion.

You somehow get ‘why can’t women be more like men’ from me. Please, I’m giving you a chance to prove me wrong (isn’t that OPEN-MINDED?) SHOW ME WHERE I SAY THAT!!!

Instead, I insist on the opposite. I have stated since the beginning of my posts that women have the right to think differently than men. I’ve NEVER suggested that they shouldn’t. Again, take the time to prove me wrong and I’ll admit it and shut up. You can’t. What makes you and other women get all angry is when I simply suggest that men HAVE THE RIGHT TO THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN WOMEN. Isn’t that simply asking for equality? God, how awful of me. How dare I suggest people have the right to view things differently? It’s right here in ALL of my posts.

Answer me this. How can you comfortably say that I wrongly think I speak for most men? After all, what you are saying is even more disturbing. You are a woman. You are not only suggesting that you speak for all or most women, you suggest that most men do not view things as I do. That means you are speaking for most men. Without being a man. LOL…so is it worse for a man to think he speaks for most men or for a woman to think she speaks for most women AND men? At least I have allowed that women are allowed to view things differently than men. Answer that question for me, honestly. Maybe you’ll start to look in the mirror and say you’re wrong. But you won’t. Hence my point about women being narrow-minded. I just proved to you how much more controlling your viewpoint is than mine (which, I believe in the 30s when it was men that were controlling, it was a NEGATIVE THING), and yet I promise I will not see any realization of your own error in judgement. Isn’t an unwillingness to change your viewpoint (upon proof of being wrong) just plain narrow-minded and stubborn? Answer that for me.

Everyone who can throw emotion out while reading this just all said ‘he’s right’, and are waiting to see if you would be strong enough to admit you’re wrong. You’re not. Men are, generally. The men in the 30s were very wrong (or will you continue to ignore my support of SOME feminist views while you bash me?). They changed that. That shows intelligence enough to allow for other people to have different viewpoints. I have yet to see that from any feminists when I simply try to point out that men think differently from women and that it shouldn’t change. It’s NOT WRONG. Dare I say the men of the 30s (who were your worst enemy) are more intelligent, and accepting of others than the feminists of today? At this point based on what proof we have, I’m sorry, but it’s true.

Talk about hypocrisy.

July 6, 2009 at 12:33 pm
(47) PhilC says:

CaroJ,

One more point. You already stated what the real problem is: “I CHOOSE to believe most people are good people…blah, blah, blah…and if you they don’t think like me, they’re not good people.” Reword it for what it really means: “I’m narrow-minded. I believe EVERYONE should think within the walls and parameters I have set up, and anyone who doesn’t is disgusting, filthy, ignorant, blah, blah, blah”.

I think Sadam Hussein felt that way. Joseph Stalin. Hitler. Killed millions of people for thinking differently than what they did. Ok. And I’m the f@cked up one because I like to look at naked women on the internet? LOL. I wish you were intelligent enough to see how silly you are, I really do. Oh well, one of life’s little pleasures I’ll never get to enjoy.

July 11, 2009 at 4:36 pm
(48) Adam says:

PhilC

You make a lot of very good points. Gradually, these, often secretly held, views are starting to surface amongst more and more men as they gain confidence in expressing them, from the support they receive from both men and women. Although they might not want to admit it on here, I’m sure your posts have provoked some thought amongst some of the female readers. It’s only by airing our views and allowing dialogue to take place that we can hope to learn more and affect positive change. Just wanted to acknowledge your contribution.

July 13, 2009 at 10:26 am
(49) PhilC says:

Thank you Adam. I truly hope what you say is true, I for one wish men would speak out a bit more. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen it enough. Of course, I’m not actively looking (I wasn’t even looking for this article, it was a link from another article that caught my attention).

July 16, 2009 at 8:08 pm
(50) Lee says:

To the author of this sexual diatribe, (‘rant’ for those with a deprived vocabulary) which is nothing more than a royal tribute to the survival of the long-hated and much-loathed sexual double standard, goes the Raspberry Award!

I’m sure you wish all women believed that horse hockey you espoused. If they did, that would absolve men of all sexual responsibility and give them a free pass for doing anything they want to do because they’re ‘hard wired.’

I thought it was the girl who ‘couldn’t help it.’

Men shouldn’t be so cocky (no pun intended – or maybe it is) as to think that they have a lock on sexual desires or behavior in ‘solving’ those desires – not my word. I know men don’t want to hear that, because it would take them out of that ‘comfort zone’ where they believe that women would NEVER cheat, visit prostitutes, watch porn, or masturbate, which are MauiPete’s only listed ‘solutions’ for men to have sexual release. I didn’t see much of anything about emotional sex with someone you love or at least care about, which in my experience, beats the hell out of the rest of the ‘solutions.’

And some women may not do all of those things that you said men do, some may not do any of them, just like men, women make choices in life. But to say that men have to do those things, because it’s ‘their nature,’ implying that women don’t have a ‘sexual nature,’ is way over the top. That’s a con, and an oversimplified generalization of both sexes. And most women aren’t buying into it anymore.

You wouldn’t be a really old guy, would you, like from way back? Because this junk you’re writing could only be swallowed by women who didn’t make it to the sixties. Take off those rose colored glasses, chum. Women expect more from men than simply being a dog (your analogy, MauiPete) and since there are so many men to choose from, they don’t have to settle for less than the best of the lot, even when they’re just having a little fun. I’m sure you don’t agree with my response, but sorry to say ‘that’s just the way it is.’

‘Girls just want to have fun.’

Your article was kind of interesting in a throw-back (Neanderthal) sort of way and kind of sad and humorous at the same time. I mean finding that there are some men out there who still think like that and are not afraid to actually put it in writing, risking scorn and ridicule, gives credence to the old saying that you just can’t kill a bad idea.

And the remark about men ‘releasing’ their sexual tensions when they get horny so they can ‘clear their heads’ and get on to ‘more important things,’ almost turned MY head around on my shoulders. I happen to think that sex is one of the most important things in life, and I clear my head of all the other garbage so I can get to that important part. And I don’t think of it as a drunken ‘sideline’ or a ‘snack’ before dinner. It’s sweet dessert.

So to those unfortunates who don’t get any dessert?

I’m sorry.

Maybe your ‘nature,’ and your ‘hard wiring,’ and your ‘beer goggles,’ aren’t working as well as MauiPete tells you they are.

My comments are primarily a response to the author of the article, not necessarily to engage in conflict with the other commentators, since I doubt that any two of us would ever agree on much of anything, and arguing over it would be fruitless.

As to whether MauiPete’s article is ‘hard truth’ or TMI, (too much information) I don’t think it’s either. In my opinion, to which I believe I am entitled, it’s not truthful and therefore not informative, but it has been highly entertaining.

Respond if you wish, but the point was to have my say, as you have all had, but not to engage in disagreeable conflict with those who have a different opinion.

If you think there is anything of value in my response, then you are welcome to take what you will and leave the rest. It’s been a hoot, but I’ll have to take my leave of you now.

My husband’s home early, and it’s time for dinner.

July 17, 2009 at 11:25 pm
(51) From a woman says:

This is the biggest bunch of crap I’ve ever read in my life and I’m talking about the comments. All of these men that say they need porn bc they just need to nut more often is just a poor excuse for not having self control. And saying that women are not into sex as much as men is a bunch of crock. Maybe they need more, not just crap men use that they learned from porn. Where is the romance? Where is the common courtesy? Men don’t even hold the door for women anymore. And don’t blame it on the feminists, yes women deserve equality bc we’re all human but some things still apply. All of these are just excuses. What happened to love? Making love? Where the hell has all of that gone?

July 19, 2009 at 3:47 am
(52) Daisy says:

All the men saying women should take better care of themselves and that is why men look at porn, answer this for me…How come the boyfriends and husbands of strippers and models (or women who just look like models or strippers) also look at porn? I worked in a strip club for years, and I have a much higher sex drive than my man. I want to have sex sometimes more than once a day. SUPPOSEDLY porn does nothing for him. I don’t believe him for a second, but I am a very attractive and in shape woman who will have sex anytime and anywhere he wants, and he still looks at porn. Why?

July 20, 2009 at 1:11 am
(53) Girl 0089067 says:

Daisy, I feel for you. I’m not what you’d call a highly attractive woman, just average. I wish I was as beautiful as a model all the time… not a skinny waif model, but a gorgeous, curvy woman. Like strippers, yeah. So I can only think how devastating it can be for you to be in that situation.

I’m sure most guys would kill to be with you. I mean, an attractive woman with a high sex drive? Yeah, guys love that. Unfortunately, some men are into porn more than real sex. I don’t know if your partner is addicted or not. But you know, I *think* (and only think, because I don’t know how men’s minds work), but I think that some guys get hooked on porn, or rather, on masturbation, because then they have complete control over the sensations. It’s not much watching these women, but rather, that literally only their own hand can please them. Because it feels tighter, because they know what they like, whatever… but I’ve read about it. Some men have that problem, that they become desensitized to anything else and they rely solely on their hand for pleasure. Well, and also because then they don’t have to worry about performance anxiety and they can feel like “the man”… which is a bit pathetic considering they’re not “the man” if they aren’t pleasing a lady… which they could do if they were a bit less selfish and learned how to please a woman…

MEN: it’s not that hard to please a woman sexually! Honestly! It’s about the clitoris, for most women, oral sex does it. A sexually satisfied woman will be more than happy to reciprocate and work on her techniques to please YOU. Because most women care a huge deal about pleasing their man. At least I don, and so do most women I know. The rejection a woman can feel sometimes, when her partner uses too much porn, has more to do with thinking she doesn’t please him enough rather than feeling unattractive.

Anyway. Both parties in a relationship should do their part. Porn is fine, in moderation, yes. It’s a compromise women have to do… only if the sex life is good. Girls, if you don’t like porn… well, if the sex life is good, let him watch it. If it’s not good, then speak up.

Daisy, most men prefer the real thing, especially with an attractive woman with a high sex drive, like you. Honestly. I may not be a guy, but I know this to be 100% true. I’m sure even PhilC would agree, even if only with this one FACT. Because it’s a fact of life.

Girls: I don’t like porn, and I can get the jealousy pang now and then over his appreciation of better looking females… but our sex life is great, and he prefers the real thing, so I just compromise and accept his ocassional porn watching. He’s great in bed and he caters to my emotional needs. I think it’s a fair compromise – but guys, remember, sex is not just about you… learn to please your lady. Although I think most guys eagerly do this… healthy, normal guys can enjoy porn in moderation anyway. And they like pleasing women… they’re eager to learn, because I’ve heard from my boyfriend that nothing is better for the ego than making a woman reach orgasm.

Phew… that was long! Sorry!

July 20, 2009 at 11:36 am
(54) PhilC says:

Lee,

I know you don’t want to get into a debate with posters, that’s fine. I understand why. However, the problem I have with what you state is simple. You are trying to talk for men. You are trying to say that you don’t WANT to believe what the author says. Ok. I don’t WANT to believe women about how awful their period is, instead I WANT to believe that women are just lazy and want to use their period as an excuse to be a real bitch whenever they feel like it. After all, I bleed. When I scraped my knee when I was a kid, I bled for a while. It didn’t make me grouchy, it didn’t make me act like a real bitch, it just simply hurt a little. So, I am using MY experiences to equate what women feel and go through.

How’s this? You want to touch on a much touchier subject? I’ve been in fights before. Some of which I’ve won, some of which I was clearly overmatched. In those that I was overmatched in, it created no emotional scars. It created no fear or life-long consequences. How is it that women, when faced with a man who abuses them, cannot take it with a grain of salt, and move on with their lives? See, before you go attack me, think about what I’m saying. I’m not downplaying abusive relationships. I’m simply stating that the physical nature of what happens to me in my scenario is no different than what happens to women when she is abused. In both cases, we are being physically dominated by another person. The difference is emotional. Doesn’t that AUTOMATICALLY show that men and women think differently about things?

See the problem with that? Of course you do. How is it you can’t see the problem with using YOUR experiences to generalize how men feel about things, when it’s a known fact…men and women think differently.

You see, I think it’s the opposite of what you say. You say men make this stuff up because they’re being lazy and don’t want to stop using porn because it’s easy. I think it’s women being lazy to say what you are saying.

See, if you believe that men are just lying and being lazy, you don’t have to accept that they think differently. You can continue to live in your ‘fantasy world’ and think that your viewpoint is the common world-wide accepted viewpoint, and anyone thinking outside of that viewpoint is wrong, dirty, lazy, blah, blah blah. It takes effort and humility to accept that your viewpoint is ONLY your viewpoint. That’s the problem I have noticed in all of the women posters. Care to read any of the posts above, and you will see that. They all say the same thing. It’s fine that they feel that way about sex and porn for THEMSELVES. But how can you use your viewpoint on porn to assume how others should view it?

You and others ask about ‘where’s the romance, where’s the ‘love’ in sex? Sorry. That’s a woman’s concept. That’s why you are having a difficult time accepting this. You feel that way about sex. Therefore you ignorantly think everyone else feels that about sex. Sure, most women might. But you can’t say that about men. If that were the case, prostitution would NOT be the oldest profession in the world. Regardless of how you feel about it, the point is, men don’t ‘love’ those prostitutes. They simply want sexual release. Men do not ‘wait’ until they love a woman in a relationship before they want to have sex with her, it’s quite the opposite. It’s only because of the sexual attraction that makes us want to even get into a relationship. It’s because we are turned on by physical attractiveness, regardless if you want to believe me, regardless of your wishing it weren’t true.

Now, to dispel a feminist ‘myth’. Women want sex just as much as men. That, I’m afraid, just isn’t quite true. I’m not going to say SOME women don’t want it as much, but the truth is, even if a woman wants it MORE often, there’s no way she wants it as much. It does not consume her, like it can consume a man’s thoughts.

Here’s an example of what I mean. Everywhere you go, you will see this. A guy’s driving his car. Sees a really nice ass on a woman on the side of the sidewalk in a short mini-skirt. I PROMISE, EVERY SINGLE MAN who notices will take his eyes off the road and stare for a moment, assuming there is no immediate danger. You won’t see that from women. Now, before you go all ‘dumb guy’ on me, please note, I will also see 10 women in the same time frame putting on their makeup while driving, talking on their cell phone, or even texting while driving. Ok. So, take it for what it’s worth. Guys are just DRAWN to the sexuality that pretty women ooze. Women do not react the same way if a guy’s running in the street with his shirt off and is in really good shape. I’m not saying they won’t notice, but they won’t stop and stare for a long time while driving. I’ve seen guys even watch and turn their head (while driving) to look behind to catch a glimpse.

Also, to prove a point. Strip clubs. Can’t say there’s too many popular male strip clubs around, and I’ve heard first-hand from every woman I’ve asked about it. They all say the same thing. They like the ‘tease’, the possible fantasy of it, but they don’t want to see a guy coming out with a raging boner sticking in their face. Why? Men want all of women’s privates exposed to them. Hmmm…that sounds to me like men and women think differently about this, don’t you think? Despite what all of your feminists want to tell you, PROOF IS IN LIFE.

Now, why do you and other women insist that men SHOULD think the same. It’s about control, simple enough. If you can say that ‘I feel the same way he does about sex’, then you can control the situation and understand it. If you have no idea what it’s like, you are left to wonder, you are left to question and you are left to have to give of yourself based on faith alone. Women do not want to do that, based on anything I’ve seen.

That needs to change before men and women can ever try to get along.

July 22, 2009 at 4:06 pm
(55) A woman says:

I think PhilC is taking this too seriously… chill out and hang out for a while at http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com, seems like the place just for you.

Honestly, though, I think most women do realize that men and women are different, and think and perceive things differently. Feminism strives for equity, namely regarding stuff like income, and other stuff. Yeah, some feminists talk about sex, but it’s hardly the main concern for feminism. I’m not a feminist and I know that.

I think the battle of the sexes is bulls***. I’m absolutely tired of it. “Men do this and that and blah, blah, blah…”. “Oh, but women are always nagging and whining, yadda-yaddah”.

Men complain about women just as much as women complain about men, stop it already, and if you really can’t stand your differences with the opposite sex so much, become a homosexual! If your own gender is better, then be either lesbian or gay. If that’s not an option then just shut up and accept the differences, move on.

July 24, 2009 at 3:00 pm
(56) Aaron Appleseed says:

This is a pretty scary place here. I’m seeing the worst side of people come out to play, in their relative anonymity.

My suggestion for alot of you that seem quite angry at the world:
(1) get some hobbies
(2) get some new friends that aren’t meatheads
(3) start dating; this is likely your biggest problem.

Seriously though, find a nice young lady to start dating and you’ll calm your nerves. All of us have quirks/quarks that other people find annoying. Live with it. After all, you’re not dating a plastic barbie doll [at least I hope not]. You’re dating someone that is happy and/or sad at times. Sometimes the behavior is downright unexplainable. C’est la vie

If you know you’re an angry rude s.o.b., then I highly suggest seeking professional help. Not only will you remain a miserable turd, but nobody likes being around miserable turds. I see some miserable turds here. You know who you are. Excuses or explanations are unacceptable, you have nobody to blame anymore but yourself.

On a positive note, I saw a red bellied warbler today. Exciting I know.

July 27, 2009 at 10:23 am
(57) PhilC says:

A woman,

See, you must not have read anything that’s going on in this string of messages to understand anything I’ve said, if you are going to write what you did about my post.

You say most women realize that men and women think differently. However, the very reason I posted was in response to women posters who were saying that men do not think like what the MAN who wrote the article was saying they do. Simply stated, it was women posters who were not allowing or acknowledging that men are allowed to think differently about sex than they do. See, within these posts, many women have suggested that they REFUSE to believe men are hard-wired, they refuse to believe men think differently by nature. So, while I wish what you say were true, I have seen no evidence of that in these posts, at least not from MOST of the women.

One more point, nothing I’ve EVER said suggests men are better than women. Please point out to me where I say that, I’m giving you an opportunity to prove me wrong.

I’m sorry you have decided to read into something that simply is not there. It does help prove me right anytime any of you women posts things like ‘philc thinks men are better than women, women should live for men, blah, blah, blah…’ It proves that you aren’t capable, at least at this point, of reading something for what is being said. You only read as you WISH to read it. You try reading into something that simply isn’t there, otherwise you could never come to the conclusion you did about me, and that’s an undeniable fact.

July 27, 2009 at 10:46 am
(58) PhilC says:

Aaron,

I see why you say what you say about needing a date, as you obviously only read one tiny section of what I wrote. Don’t bother reading the rest, it’s too much for you. See, you make assumptions about me, yet it’s you who isn’t willing to take the time to understand what I’m saying. That’s part of the problem. If you’re a guy, you are part of the problem.

In our society, it’s typical of men to ‘just accept things as they are’ and not complain about things. I understand why. Life is short. Why spend it working toward making a difference when you might not make a difference anyway? Enjoy your life. I get that. I do enjoy my life, quite enough, thanks. I just happen to think about things, apparantly moreso than you. That’s fine. I don’t care that you don’t think about these things. However, where women were wronged, they spoke out about it. Where men are wronged, they don’t. They are taught to ‘just accept it’. That’s a good trait to have most of the time. Not all of the time.

If everyone was like you, Aaron, minorities and women never would have been given the right to vote, and we would currently still be living in the 20s. See, it was the work of those people who changed our society. They opened the right minds to see things differently than what they did at the time.

I come here and see feminist posts indicating a flat-out REFUSAL to believe and accept it when a guy simply states that men are naturally drawn to sex, porn, physical beauty. The outrage indicated a TRUE problem that may be developing in our society. And, that problem, is an unwillingness to accept a different viewpoint from their own. I do have a problem with that. I will speak out against that, and I certainly am not going to stop because some dude named Aaron doesn’t care to think about this. Do as you wish. I’m trying to open some minds so others can be accepting of people. The more understanding and acceptance, the better men and women will get along.

July 28, 2009 at 4:44 am
(59) Mike says:

Why do men look at porn? Its easy! It’s alot easier to get off to watching sex then imagining it. Why do men lie about watching it? They are afraid of they’re mates reaction. Is watching porn bad, is it cheating? YES and NO! It depends on the relationship and how you and your partner feel about it. Is having other sexual partners wrong? Most of the time yes, but not always. It depends on the relationship. Its the responsibly of both parties to figure out what is and isn’t acceptable in a relationship. There should be no gray areas here. Masturbation? It’s normal and idk about the rest of you but I find it to be a damn pain to be horny and walking around with a rod or fantasies plaguing you. Plus men who masturbate are LESS likely to get prostate cancer. I think ill take that option. Can Porn and masturbation be a problem? YES! If you like porn or masturbating more then having sex with your partner there is defiantly something wrong there. It should just be a quick fix until later. Also if a guy masturbates most likely he will last longer later on. My gf and I enjoy making love quite abit. However there are times that one of us just aren’t in the mood. So what do we do? The one in the mood looks at porn and masturbates!

August 1, 2009 at 12:39 pm
(60) mr.b says:

I have dated very attractive women before, but that has never stopped me from enjoying watching porn. There is something about having the ability to view naked beautiful women at anytime that is irrestible to me and other porn fans. Can porn be degrading to women? Yes. Do I care? No. Do I tranfer my porn fantasies to my personal sex life? Sometimes. Does it affect my relationships? I am not sure.

August 5, 2009 at 1:43 am
(61) conphx says:

Isn’t there a monitor on this site to keep off bores like PhilC?
Who and what did this self-loved moron pester before the internet gave it access to spew stupidity.

August 6, 2009 at 7:35 pm
(62) wham says:

PhilC, a few things.

- Brevity: if you have anything good to say, you can say it concisely. You are too lawyerly and rambling in your responses.

- Determinism: the point you completely miss is that your attraction to thin women was conditioned. In other times on this planet men went wild over big fat women. While most feminists may be thinly-veiled man haters, the goal of any true feminist is societal change over time in what gets conditioned into us all. As you observe, without such people slavery etc. would still exist.

- Tone and implication: Just because you don’t say something verbatim doesn’t mean you didn’t “say” it.

I am recently single and I watch porn all the time. I don’t actually like most of it, however, it’s almost all disgusting! So I should say that I search for ‘good’ porn all the time. Why?

As others have mentioned, I want to relieve the sexual tension quickly and get on with my life. I don’t want the women I encounter in daily life or at work to have undue power over me because I’m incredibly horny. Sound familiar, girls? I don’t want to be some leering retard on the subway. I want something other than how luscious a woman’s midriff or hips look to occupy my mind’s eye for a few hours.

Why don’t I seek sex from actual women most of the time? Because I find most people (not singling out women) really want external validation FAR more than they want sex. They want me to “choose” them, to “love them for them” and have a relationship, to spend tons of my time with them. What if I don’t want to – is that so insulting? I’m not insulted if you don’t want that from me!

Just as men have been conditioned to desire supermodel skinny women – which I admit is idiotic – women have been conditioned that they shouldn’t want sex. It’s “bad”. It’s especially bad to have an “only sex” relationship with a man. A man! Ohmahgawd!

Women are conditioned to think like hookers. I have no problem with actual hookers and I make no negative judgments. I DO have a problem with women who are not hookers but who still think that way. They think they need to “get something” in exchange for sex. They need to get “security” or a ring or a lifestyle. If they give a BJ it’s a sacrifice or a gift to some dirty man, etc. How about just enjoying the act of sex? Why does it always have to be quid pro quo?

You can tell a fake feminist from a real one in this way. The real ones want all the barriers removed – meaning ‘just sex’ relationships are fine and dandy if they so desire – but the fake ones want only anti-women bullshit eradicated. The pro-women bullshit is just fine, thank-you!

I am attracted to a wide variety of women and generally disgusted by pornstars and supermodels, but I’m MORE disgusted by “normal” women with the mentioned conditioned beliefs.

Give me enough physically “normal”, (yes, even fat though not obese) healthy women with healthy sex drives who view sex not as validation and not as a bargaining chip and I’ll give up porn for life! I know these women do exist but they are so far far and few between in these United States and in very high demand.

TLDR: I like to boogie.

August 11, 2009 at 9:48 am
(63) Mz. Puzzled says:

I just want to know how often is normal? My live in boyfriend and I have sex several times a week, at times twice a day. We’ve been together for 9 yrs, I never say no, if anything he is the one who at times has complained about being tired. I’m willing to do many thing with him & have done many things. I don’t have a problem with him watching porn alone, since I do it myself, even though not as often.
I’m not in bad shape being that I had a baby 7 months ago I’m working out and is going good & I don’t think that’s a problem for him because nothing has changed between us. Since the beggining of our relationship he watches porn every time he is alone and he hides it. Yet, it bothers him to think I do the same. Is that normal or should I be concerned?

August 12, 2009 at 3:29 pm
(64) PhilC says:

Wham,

I have stated a few times I’m a bit long winded.

I have much to say and reasons for what I say. It goes against conventional thought of this time. In order to properly convey so the reader may understand, I try to make examples that connect what I’m saying with something they may understand. It gets long-winded. Don’t read it if you don’t wish.

I don’t agree with your assessment of me (or other men) being ‘conditioned’ to like thin women. I will give you the opportunity to give me an example or some proof on conditioning to prove your point. However, just because some feminist groups want to say ‘we are conditioned to think a certain way’ does not mean it’s actually true. I promise, as you may or may not have seen, I am willing to think for myself, regardless if it’s the popular opinion or not, therefore, I promise, any attraction I have to women is due to what nature / god intended created in me. I believe your statement of me being ‘conditioned’ goes much deeper than just some popular belief in our society, so I would be interested as to your reasoning on that subject.

#3, For you to say my Tone suggests I imply something that I simply have not stated is ridiculous. Please, point to what my ‘tone’ says. Sure, I use CAPS to show emphasis. But never have my CAPS indicated I think women are inferior, women are dumb, blah, blah all the things female posters have indicated I say, even though I’ve CLEARLY never said those things. Yes, that CAPS is meant to indicate very strongly that I’ve made myself clear, and any belief to the contrary is WRONG.

August 13, 2009 at 5:12 am
(65) Serah says:

@PhilC : OK. I agree with most of what you said so far. We are all human. I as a woman, watch porn too, I enjoy it. Most of my work involves talking on the phone and I will ocassionally be turned on by some really hot deep voices some of our customers have.

I can relate to men looking after women on the street, or at porn. Just as I will look after men on the street and be arroused(I don’t make a goal out of it, it just happens, nice dude turns up and I will turn my head after him), or I’ll get amazingly arroused when I hear a voice that ‘presses some buttons in my brain’. I find that to be normal. I also look at porn and love it when some guy keeps going at it for 20-30 minutes, but that doesn’t make me not appreciate my real live man who ..well, just isn’t a porn star. So I get it how men can separate porn from reality and not necesarily want an airbrushed girl in real life.

When you get married you decide, together (at least in my and my husbands case) that you will not have sex with other people. You don’t decide you won’t be atracted to other people because that’s really impossible. You won’t decide you’ll never masturbate (goes for both of us again)…I’ll sometimes be tired and rather love myself in 2-3 minutes than do it with him and take a half an hour to. I can understand why he would want to do the same. I can also understand why he wants some variety once in a while, and for me it seems like a fair deal for him to watch porn and not be out there banging another chick.

But, and here comes the big but…this kind of thinking has brought me to…him not admiting to watching porn (though I have no problem with it and admit doing it myself), him not admiting to please himself while he’s watching it. Him wanting me about once every month or two. (i’m not being arrogant here but I do have big boobs, a round butt and a skinny waist, and a pretty kinky child like face to top it.).

Not only will I not say no to anything, I am actually quite attracted to some ideas inspired from porn, as in, i would love to do that, but he thinks it’s awkward to do such stuff with his wife. So he refuses to. And I can’t do them with someone else because I don;t want to cheat on him. So basically he’s just hiding around, watching porn every day (to be fair, he doesn;t loose nights doing it or anything, just the quick 5-6 minuter when i’m not at home), looks at other chicks on the street (obviously) and will refuse any kind of sex from my part unless i’m wearing some reaaaaaaly sexy underwear (and even then i dunno if he finds me attractive or just gives in cause I put effort in it). If I ask him he’ll say ‘I rarely think about sex’. But ofc, he watches porn every day. So…he’s telling lies right? I’ve even heard…’oh, don’t do that, you’ll get me horny and I don’t want to have sex.’. I’m actually trying to be tolerant and understanding. But if I don’t understand something and he refuses to talk about it, how can i be understanding and tolerant?

After going out every day with tons of guys hitting on me and letting me know exactly what they’d do to me if they’d catch me, I come home to a husband that has just had his 5-6 minutes of porn and relief and will not even look at me. I am dead sure I’m not at all unattractive, I am dead sure I’m smart, I cook and clean, I have a job, I’m open-minded to practically anything and still, nothing happens. Moreover, if I try make something happen and I don’t have perfect timing and attitude = think along the lines of sexy lingere, bottle of wine in one hand, cat-walking through the door and acting sexy and smiley and enthusiastic, he will not have sex with me except for that 1 time every one-two months. Now, as I’ve said before, i cook, clean, have a job, come home from work, give him a massage cause he’s tired, try to make him laugh cause he’s stressed. At the end of the day, I have this relatively relaxed, fed, happy man…that…hmm…won’t have sex with me.Now, from that point of view I can’t help but wonder if porn doesn’t make some men lazy(I’m not claiming this is true..I’m just considering it). Good looking woman in real life means effort from his part, good looking woman on the screen means just sitting down and enjoying. Besides, a real live woman cannot read your mind and do whatever you want without telling her. The woman on the screen can do whatever you want, because she IS in your mind. If that’s what’s happening here, well, it’s really really ruining my marriage. He refuses to talk about it. All I want is to sit down and get to know eachother sexually. I wish I would know what he wants, but then again I’m not a mind reader. And I wish it wasn’t so hard for two people at 24-25 to have decent sex at least once a week. And aside from that to openly discuss our self-pleasing habbits. I’m not only not accusing men of anything, I’m actually trying to understand one. I am actually asking what he needs. For a long time I thought lack of sex made me frustrated. No, thinking I’m not capable of pleasing him sexually makes me frustrated. Him never bothering to ask for anything sexual, talk about anything sexual, say what he desires and fantasizez about, that’s what makes me pissed. It makes me feel like I’m not in an intimate relationship, that it’s more like a brother/sister or mother/kid thing. Which means my mind perceives it as if I don’t have a man around, which obviously makes me more horny and frustrated. But I can’t talk to him or cheat, so I’m basically stuck in frustration.

Before you accuse women of being worried about porn, please do realize that just as an above poster said, men and women are different, just as some men and other men are different. And porn can reck a marriage because it’s the easy way out for a man. If he’s lazy, he might stick to porn, if his wife doesn’t satisfy him (because he hasn’t said what he likes) he’ll turn to porn, not bothering to talk it over with her and why it’s not working. If he’s tired from work, he’ll just go watch porn. Or in my dude’s case…he’s never ever known what turns him on (has been like this since day one of our relationship) and he’ll prolly rather just fins something and self-love himself than ever bother to explain it to me. Have you ever heard of the concept of a woman that doesn’t have sex regularly being mean and isterical and frustrated? Has any man ever read Freud? Does any man know that just as it’s the wife’s responsibility to keep her man satisfied, it’s the man’s responsibility to keep his woman satisfied else she’ll become angry and bitter and frustrated? What more can I do to please him exactly? If this sounds angry, it’s because I am. Hope you’ll say what opinion you have on this.

August 13, 2009 at 12:03 pm
(66) PhilC says:

Serah,

wow, you’re almost as long-winded as I am!!! That’s ok, as I’ve argued about myself, you have a lot to say and reasons for saying it, so it takes time, and I am ok with that.

Serah, please bear with me, I’m certainly not going to personally attack you, you are one of the few women who’s been reasonable with me.

I suggest one thing at this point before I go further, and that is to make sure you are honest with yourself. I don’t care if you’re honest with me. I only say this because I have to assume everything you are describing is EXACTLY how it truly is. It’s very easy, when trying to make a point, to ‘forget’ something, or to make things sound a lot less your fault than what it really is. It’s human nature and in no way am I saying you ARE doing that, or that you are at fault, please don’t read into it. I’m simply saying you need to know yourself if you are doing that, because one or two of the things you might be leaving out or overlooking might be the ‘root cause’ of some of this frustration.

Now, going off of the assumption you are telling it exactly as it is, I can only offer a few things, maybe somethings you don’t want to hear. I obviously can’t speak for every individual on their likes/dislikes, where someone may vary from me.

#1)I can say it is possible that what you say about ‘being lazy’ is true, in this case. Again, I only caution and argue against many women posters who have generalized and indicated that ‘all men, blah, blah, blah’. I’m not blind to the fact that porn CAN cause problems. I think that’s an extreme, and you may happen to be with a guy who is an extreme case. If it is, obviously, he’ll need some help. I always caution women though, to understand what ‘needs help’ and what should be ‘acceptable’ as to how a person is, which kind of leads me to another potential thought:

#2) He may be one of those guys that wants sex to be about him, and not about you, and your aggressiveness could be turning him off a bit. I know that somehow sounds so bad to women and so selfish, but it’s also a bit of the root of some of my posts. It doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t want you to enjoy it, but it might mean that he wants to be the aggressor, or that he wants to not have to worry about satisfying you. In other words, a more ‘traditional role’.

Here’s where I’m coming from with that: There are some men who want kids, there are many men who don’t. There are some men who want a big house and many who don’t care, and would rather save money and buy something much more affordable than what women want. They view their home only as a place to live. There are some men who want to get married and many men who don’t think about the institution of marriage as anything more than just some ceremony. There are some men who want to talk and communicate about things. There are many men who don’t.

So, here’s the point. If your man doesn’t care that much about having kids, or doesn’t care that much about a big house, or doesn’t care that much about ‘marriage’ (this isn’t about the committment of marriage, rather the ‘institution’ of marriage), but you do have or will have those things, that means he’s put down his own wants of life for your benefit. He’s given to you to make you happy. If he’s there for you to hug and comfort you, he’s not doing it for himself, he’s doing it for you. He may, in return, want sex to be JUST for him. It’s not asking much. It’s a simple case of ‘I’ve made a sacrifice for you, why can’t you sacrifice for me, and give something to me FOR me’?

Again that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it. You probably will, and he will want you to enjoy it. It just means you might want to approach it differently, or you may need to allow him to be the aggressor. There are men who don’t think this way, and that’s fine for them. But there are those who do, and that’s fine for them. You just have to try to figure out if your husband is that way or not.

#3) According to what you say, figuring out #2 will be very difficult, because it sounds like he doesn’t communicate much. You may say to him ‘I’m open about porn’, and assume that means he should be able to talk to you about it. But you have to understand, there’s a couple of things at work here against you. First, and most important, is that he’s been taught through society, through maybe his mom, dad, whoever, feminists, that liking porn is ‘bad’. Looking up a hot girl’s skirt is ‘perverted’. Wanting to just go have sex with some hot babe ‘makes him a dog’. There’s A LOT of negative connotations in our society about men’s sexual desires that come naturally. I promise, those things have a negative impact. Much like feminists trying to change girls views that they can’t learn math, this is the same. It’s instilled not only through religion but through society. God, I got hammered just for suggesting that men think women who keep themselves in shape are attractive and men want to have sex with them. And that’s just in 50 something posts from 20 or so people. There’s no way for a guy to feel comfortable about his desires in today’s society, unless he fights through it himself, and has come to the conclusion that ‘it’s ok’. That’s probably why he lies about it.

And the second thing working against you is the fact that many men do not want to communicate about things, especially to women. See, part of that comes from the point of my original post. Men don’t trust that women are capable of understanding and accepting a different viewpoint. Why communicate if you’re just going to be called a ‘pervert’, or ‘lazy’, or whatever. Again, I’m not saying you do this, but it’s a pretty strong perception about women in general. It sounds like you do not fit that mold, which is great. I applaud you and wish you could rub off on some of these other women posters.

That’s not to say it’s all women’s fault, no. There’s also the ‘old school’ of thought about men, created from men, that you just deal with things in life and you don’t complain about them. The quiet strong type who just gets things done. That’s good to an extent, and it’s bad to an extent. So, what you have is probably a guy who has some old school thoughts about communicating, mixed with new school frustration with not trusting women, mixed with societal ideas about how filfthy and disgusting he is, and you’ve got a guy who just simply isn’t going to talk about things too much. And that makes it very hard on you. I get that. Unfortunately, I don’t have many answers as to an immediate solution. I see where things need to change on the whole, but that will take time. It will take time to change our society’s views of what’s ‘perverted’ and what’s just simply natural.

If you try to talk to him, I might suggest opening things up by telling him some things that might make you look or feel ‘dirty’. Things that society says are taboo, maybe a weird fantasy. That will put down his guard, at least on that side of things. If he feels you won’t judge him, it’ll be much easier to open up communication with you. That will actually solve two of the three communication problems that I believe men face. The third is a bit deeper rooted, and you might not have much success with that one, that one being the ‘traditional role’. But I’d at least try what I said, and see if it helps. It can be done in a funny setting, something that’s making light of the subject, so it doesn’t seem so serious.

You obviously need to let him know how his actions affect you. You might find out that you have done some things that have affected him, that you didn’t even realize. As is the case with men and women, hearing those things aren’t easy. Hearing them leads almost automatically to a defense mechanism. Trying to defend one’s viewpoint. While you may have a legit reason for it, doing so will not help matters. Owning up to it will many times break down the barriers of the other. I’m not saying this only for women to do, it’s something good communicators need to do whether man or woman. But since you appear to be the stronger communicator, it will probably fall on your shoulders to ‘be the example’.

If that doesn’t work, you may be left with marriage counseling, an ultimatum to him or deciding for yourself what’s more important: what you want, or staying together with him even if it’s at the cost of what you want.

I’m sorry if what I say doesn’t help you. I hope it helps a little, at least to the point of better understanding, maybe better communication.

August 14, 2009 at 7:05 am
(67) Serah says:

PhilC,

While I have some pretty strong opinions about some stuff, I also agree that every single thing can be seen from different angles, and people form different opinions upon it. That’s exactly why I don’t hurry along yelling ‘omg my hubby is watching porn, the jerk’.I might see it as a threat to our marriage, he might see it as keeping our marriage together (along the lines of, for diversity I’d rather watch some porn than cheat..)And I’d appreciate any feedback from anyone, be it positive, negative, or anything, because there is always something to learn from it :) I’m going to try to keep it shorter and well structured, although I can’t promise I’ll succeed.

1. I sincerely don’t think the porn ‘is the problem’. It’s more along the lines of, there was a problem which lead him to actually prefering porn to anything else. I see porn as avoidance of the problem on his part because as long as he can stick to that, he doesn’t have to deal with sex, hence he can freely ignore whatever is bothering him and keeping him from having a more active sex life. I can’t call it an adiction. It would be unfair. At the moment he’s just doing it when he has a free day or when I’m home late, which to be honest I do too. Difference between us is I’m completely prepared to be open about why, when and how I do it.I’m not sure if I explained this well enough. I see his watching porn as ‘brooming all the dirt under the carpet’ if you understand what I mean.

2. Actually, I think he makes sex all about me and is bothered because he doesn’t think he can satisfy me. That because of lack of communication and foreplay. And no, i don’t understand forplay as 30-40 minutes of sweet talk. When you see a person on the street, the 1-2-3 minutes you fantasize about them, is a sort of foreplay. That would be enough for me, to think a few sexy thoughts before we start, to get in the mood. (I sometimes get in the mood simply by giving him a massage).

I’m not pointing fingers, but that 1-nce a month thing feels like a hit and run (kinda like ‘honey, i’m home, pack your bags we’re going to Hawaii, oh and by the way, you have 2 minutes to do it – you’re happy and excited but at the same time you have no clue what to grab or do first :D ). I do wish i could explain that to him, but i can’t just blurt it out, and i can’t in any way start a talk, he deviates as soon as he figures it’s personal. (besides, women have a history with nagging, yelling and accusing).

He wants kids just as much as or even more than me. He talks about that pretty often, with him starting the conversation. He’s more preocupied of having a big house than me. I’m fine with the little place we have now.

He often stated that he’s just not that interested in sex (in general and not with me in particular). But again, since I’m not a mind reader, him looking after other females and at porn sends a quite different message, makes me feel insecure and unsafe (because I’m human after all). That could mean he wants another woman, or it could mean that he’s just being a guy, but for some reason feels uncomfortable about actual sex.

3. He doesn’t wanna go near any private topic whatsoever. Only thing he discusses are bills, what we need to buy, what we need to do to cut down on expenses, what he’d like to buy and what he finds fascinating (including cars, gadgets etc). Don’t get me wrong, I love those talks, I married him because we can hold those conversations better than two men could talk about football or two women could talk about different shades of lipstick. We do go out, talk, laugh, enjoy eachother’s company. But when something isn’t working properly, you need to talk about that too – even though embarrasing (as in : hey, the washing machine broke down, we need to fix it. Same thing…hey, sex broke down, let’s fix it). As I’ve mentioned to him, everything we talk about, we’re extremely good at together and turns out excellent. Only things we don’t talk about are our intimate/emotional needs and sex. And obviously both are really bad.

I think it’s a normal part of life to keep attractive for your mate. Sure, there are moments in life where you can’t (think women and pregnancy). I expect the affection my mate has for me to maintain some sort of sex life throughout the pregnancy, but i don’t find it normal to completely let yourself go after having a kid. That’s not only lack of respect for your mate, it’s also lack of respect for your own self. Besides, looks are part of it. If you were affectionate and funny at the start of the relationship and 5 years later you are bitter all the time it has the same effect as gaining weight, doesn’t it?

I understand the point your trying to make, that a man is attracted to a woman and satisfied once he chooses her, but doesn’t expect her to gain a ton of weight 5 years into the marriage or become bitter and yell every day about how much she does around the house. And women whether they admit it or not, have exactly the same problems. They are just bothered by different things their husbands stop doing. It’s a vicious cycle really. Woman lets herself go, man feels she doesn’t love him (because she doesn’t wanna look good for him), stops doing some stuff for her, woman notices that, gets even more frustrated, starts being angry and so on.

I know I should ‘lead by example’ and become vulnerable and completely open without asking anything in return. I just don’t know how to do it. As I’ve said before, whenever i go into something more personal, he completely changes the topic, sometimes even gets angry.

I am well aware I might have done some things to affect him, I just wish I knew what they were. This feels like two kids that got upset on eachother and each went to his/her corner and sits there pouting, without anyone saying anything. I believe maturity, on both sides, women and men, includes self-control + comunication. That meaning, learning to and having the courage to say what’s on your mind, but phrasing it in such a way that your SO can understand exactly what you mean and gets as little hurt feelings as possible. In the end, in a marriage, we’re there to support eachother and make life better for eachother, not to judge and accuse. Too bad most people don’t stop to consider that when they are angry.

What you said does help. I really thank you for that. I’ve already chosen to stay together with him at the cost of what I want. But that doesn’t keep me from trying to see if there’s anything to do that can make things better for the both of us.

What i also don’t understand is why lately he’s become exagerately manly in action, when he was never like that. While at the same time, he seems to need a second opinion on most decisions he makes, and seems generally less confident in his actions or decisions.

I’m not sure if my ‘over-thinking’ the situation is good or bad. It could be anything. I’m frustrated about not knowing him more than anything else. It feels odd for the person who should be closest to you (we don’t choose any of our family except for our spouse…so we should take responsability for our choice).

August 14, 2009 at 9:15 am
(68) Serah says:

‘Now, to dispel a feminist ‘myth’. Women want sex just as much as men. That, I’m afraid, just isn’t quite true. I’m not going to say SOME women don’t want it as much, but the truth is, even if a woman wants it MORE often, there’s no way she wants it as much. It does not consume her, like it can consume a man’s thoughts.’

This is the only thing i don;t agree with. Are men afraid of some things? Yes. Do they ever admit it? Sometimes not even to themselves. Check out how females of various species behave when in heat. Not only do they NEED to reproduce, they will reproduce with an alpha male and then perhaps all other males in sight.

They will encourage the males to mate with them. There are lots of myths involving sexuality.

1.Like males are polygamous, females aren’t. Well, no offence but most species of females mate with at least 4-5-6 males to produce offspring of ‘high quality’.

2.The male is made for enjoying sex and the female is not (explain all those nerves in the clitoris then…how’d they just happen to land there for pleasure?)

3.Males can’t be satisfied by only one woman whereas females can….(with all the women yelling about their men not lasting long enough, considering the fact that women can have sex easily with 5-6 partners a day). Due maily to the fact that men were bigger therefore dominant as a sex for many years. Women were submissive to them. A man having more women meant he had more power..alpha male etc. Women can always have as many males as they want, separately or at the same time. Males found it harder to find more females.

Bottom line is, a woman will feel like more of a woman if she looks pretty, teases all men, and doesn’t get caught by any of them. It boosts her confidence.

A man will feel more confident if he’s accepted by as many women as possible (because they are hard to get). It boosts his confidence.

While sex is an urge and feels awesome for a woman, it’s in conflict with what i just said above, and all the stuff her mom told her about not putting out for anyone cause she looses her worth.

That creates a conflict. Just like you have ‘should i pee on the street like i feel the urge to, and be laughed at by people’? or should I hold on, repress the urge and wait till home?

I’m sorry if my comparisson sounds disgusting or offensive to anyone. My point is it all starts from how you think and what you know you can or can’t get. Males living surrounded by 5-6 sisters and living with women all their lives will tend to be more emotional and not be such players.

This is of course just my opinion, as i said there are many versions. Only thing that bothers me with men oggling me on the street is that it’s like telling me ‘hey babe, i’m screwing you in my mind now’.

I’m sure not all men would appreciate me going around the street looking at them with a face that clearly states ‘hey dude, i’m imagining you taking out the trash and moving furniture for me now, or imagining how desperate you are and how i can make you do anything i’d like for you to get sex’. I can understand you doing that, but more subtly please. It’s completely normal for a man to be attracted to a woman. It’s not normal for me as a woman to be mind-screwed by 50 men a day ;)

I anxiously await all opinions on this matter.

August 15, 2009 at 11:11 am
(69) TinaT says:

My boyfriend of 2 1/2 years would rather leave me than give up porn. Ive tried to be ok with it, but unfortunately for certain painful reasons I just cant seem to be. I can totally understand the need for it in certain relationships that lack sex. My boyfriend and I will have sex, then he cant wait for me to leave the house so he can sit there for hours, naked on the couch stroking his thing! Here is the problem. One, I am extremely sexual, as in he doesnt give it to me enough. I would do it 4 times a day everyday if he would allow. I never even get the second go round. Two, if after sex he still felt the need for more, I would give him a bj, jerk him off, whatever. I have told him this very sweetly that i would rather me get him off than other naked women. Im very attractive so I dont see the reason he is not satisfied, he has me doing things they do in porns as well. more than happy too please. Two, im the one who never reaches orgasm with him because he is overweight and cant keep going in the same position long enough for me to get there, i dont tell him because i dont want to kill his self esteem, but he seems to be ok will killing mine by watching porn after ive explained many times how incompitant that makes me feel because to me, he is chosing that over me, because he knows i want it, but wont put out. I told him I know he has to masturbate sometimes, but i would rather him watch it with me instead of alone. I try to understand this whole porn thing, but he has made this out to be Im crazy and should just accept it because he wont stop. I dont think he has any clue, or cares, that is killing me on so many levels because Im the one who should feel in lack of, not him. I do too much for him. So does this mean porn is more important than real love and relationships, is it worth giving up a woman that loves and desires you constantly, and willing to do anything for? Whats wrong with me? or whats wrong with him?

August 20, 2009 at 10:33 am
(70) PhilC says:

Serah,

I do have some responses for you. But you wrote a lot and multiple points you wrote about requires some discussion, so putting it all in one response would create quite a ridiculously long post (yes, even longer than what’s already been done)

And, I will not go in order of your post…random order as I think of your comments:

My comment about women not wanting sex as much as men, you bring up a good point: women are conflicted because of what they are taught. I agree, that can definitely be a part of the reason women refrain. However, it still doesn’t mean women think or want sex as much as men. Again, I’m saying this as a generalization. I know SOME women may want it as much, as deeply and as often. But that’s not a majority.

You actually helped prove it a bit in what you said last when you gave your example of men mind screwing you all day long when they see you, and here’s why I say that:

You indicated that men wouldn’t want women to be thinking ‘I envision you taking out the trash…etc’. That right there means that women’s FIRST reaction on a guy is ‘what can he provide for me, in terms of work, accomplishment, etc…that triggers before the sexual thoughts.

Men do NOT think that. They don’t care. Their first and their ONLY thought is ‘I want to bend you over or put your legs behind your head’.

What’s also true is that men would WANT women to think ‘man, I’d like to ride you home tonight’ when you look at us. There is not a man alive who would be offended, even slightly, by that thought. 90% of men would act on that if they knew you were thinking that, if you’re attractive. Obviously those who aren’t, it might be a different story.

However, you yourself (self proclaimed to have a STRONG sexual desire) don’t want men to do that to you. It’s because you’re not as hard-wired to think like that, no matter how much you enjoy it, no matter how much you think about it, it’s still simply not the same. You would not act on it even if you had the opportunity and it was an attractive man that you saw doing it to you (someone like PhilC, LOL). Sometimes, maybe you would, but you’d need a stronger sense of safety, security before you proceed. Men wouldn’t need that. Men’s desires for sex overrides that concern. Maybe it’s because men are more confident in their ability to protect themselves, that’s possible, but the point is, in a man’s mind, the hierarchy of needs works like this:

1)Food (often times is replaced by 1a)

1a) Sex (many times #1 will not be allowed to take hold if #1a isn’t taken care of)

2) everything else

I’m simply stating that as much as you might like sex, and women have come a long way in allowing themselves to enjoy sex and be sexual, it’s still not the same way men think of it. It can consume men’s minds to the point of. That’s why I say women don’t like sex as much as men. It’s a generalization, and as a general rule (there are always exceptions both ways) it is true.

August 21, 2009 at 5:31 pm
(71) Socrates says:

PhilC

Your characterization of male sexuality is pretty accurate for the most part. For people who doubt it, they only have to look at the difference between male to male and female to female relationships in the gay community. Gay male relationships are more sex orientated, whereas gay female relationships place a stronger emphasis on emotional sustenance. That’s not to say there is not sometimes overlap, but generally speaking, there is a stronger purely sexual aspect to gay male relationships. You don’t often hear about women getting caught cottaging, à la George Michael.

The other thing about male gay relationships is there is a general absence of machismo. No one is trying to prove how much of a man they are, so there can be no accusations of patriarchal conditioning. On the contrary, now that it is more acceptable to be openly gay in most Western democracies, those men who choose to come out, do not try to hide their effeminate side if they have one and positively celebrate women, yet when it comes to their sex lives, their appetites and inclinations towards other men resemble those of heterosexual men toward women, not heterosexual or homosexual women toward men and women respectively.

On a side note, are you familiar with the Coolidge Effect? This explains why men can become so bored having sex with the same person. The desire for variety is natural, which is why porn remains popular for men, even if they are in relationships. The appetite is there and porn is one of the means by which men can quench it. There may be other sexual and non-sexual alternatives to help painlessly abate or satisfy these desires in a monogamous relationship, but they are not at all obvious to those who have them. Simply trying to suppress them is not going to do the trick. You’ll either be depressed or the dam will bust at some point. Here are a couple of links explaining the Coolidge Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolidge_effect

http://www.reuniting.info/science/coolidge_effect

My comments do not speak of all men, naturally, but the overwhelming majority.

August 24, 2009 at 3:49 am
(72) Serah says:

PhilC,

I was talking about looking at guys as if I want them to take the trash out from a more subjective standpoint.

As in, I personally am married. I am not exactly sure how men feel about this, but at the moment a guy visibly and obviously undresses me with his eyes, specially when that happens more times a day by different guys, naturally makes me feel bad. While outside a marriage I could see sex as being casual and ‘meaningless’, bringing little to no emotional attachment, since when I became married I find it slightly inapropriate to flirt or do more with another man. A man would probably have a similar reaction to what I said, the part with taking the trash out, because it would make him feel kind of the same (or so i think). Besides, thoughts are controllable. Sure, a nice guy will pass by, i will check him out involuntarily, just like i’ll check out everything that draws my attention, a nice car, a weird kid, a lady that’s carrying a kitten, you name it. But since I married, seeing a cute guy translates into ‘oh, he’s fine, i’d do him if i were single….but i’m not’. Based on that logic, i can completely understand why men check out women they like. It simply catches their attention.

After some talk with some female friends, it appears you really are right and women aren’t (or won’t admit) to be that interested in sex. As for my personal hard-wiring, were i single at the moment, i would probably act on and enjoy most opportunities i’d have.

Anyway, you seem like a really reasonable guy, and I can generally understand your point of view. Any way i can switch to talking to you on something more reasonable than this post? I’m really concerned about my hubby as I mentioned above and you might actually be able to help me in figuring out what’s missing for him. That’s only if you want of course.

August 25, 2009 at 2:05 pm
(73) PhilC says:

Serah,

As I have stated before…so many things to say, recently, so little time.

I truly appreciate women who understand what I say, I’ve found up to this point they are few and far between. I don’t believe there’s any ‘derrogatory’ remarks, only truths that need to be realized and accepted by both sexes (men, too, but this is where women post mostly, right?).

I am always happy and open to giving my opinion, as you can see, and if that opinion can help in anyway, that’s even better.

However, I do not have a ‘facebook’ or anything like that to communicate. If you do, I will be happy to visit and chat with you there, or if there is some other format, let me know.

As far as your potential problems with your husband, I would ask you to make sure you sit down with him and dig. He might not like it (most people don’t like to dig, but men maybe moreso than women).

The reason I say this is because he’s doing something but won’t admit it to you. Now, I would theorize it’s because of what I’ve said in the past…he’s made to feel ashamed and guilty for his sexual thoughts. He may even be into things that are a bit ‘weird’ or ‘perverted’ even to you, and he’s been taught that those things aren’t acceptable, and he may be afraid of you rejecting him because of it.

Think about this for a moment. I am a man. I know and have seen how my generation has been raised. I’m guessing you and hubby are probably close to my age, certainly the same generation.

We have grown up in times where we’ve been taught that women are equal to men. That’s great. But how do you make someone feel good about themselves? 2 ways. One positive and one negative.

1 by positively reinforcing that person’s value or 2 by knocking others around you down. I hate to say, but there’s been a lot of both. Blaming men. Calling men perverts, pigs, dogs, cheats, liars, etc. When a man doesn’t want to get married he’s ‘afraid of committment’. When a woman doesn’t (now a days), she’s ‘independent, career-oriented and strong’. WHAT????

What’s wrong with both being ‘independent, career-oriented and strong’?

Sorry, off on a soapbox. But the point is, you may not realize it, but that’s an example of the ‘bringing down’ of men I’m talking about, and those things filter into everyday life, and affect how families have raised their children.

Boys have been taught to be respectful of girls, but to never demand and expect anything of girls. Girls have been taught to demand and expect of boys, but to never respect and give back to boys.

So, basically, we raise girls to be princesses, but we don’t raise boys to be princes (and I don’t mean prince charming that caters to girls), and that’s wrong.

When I raise a child, it’s going to be for what’s best for my child, whether it be girl or boy. If it’s a boy, then yeah, I’m raising him to be respectful, but to also acknowledge, embrace and enjoy his sexuality, so long as he doesn’t hurt anyone with it.

But, that’s not what’s been happening, and your husband may be feeling the guilt and shame associated with all of that,(based on how he was raised) and is hiding it from you. He may even be ashamed to admit that he just quite simply wants sex to be about him. He’s wanting to please you so much according to you, but that might equate to him as being a ‘chore’. He might be too worried about pleasing you that he’s not really enjoying it himself.

But until you are able to talk to him, it’s all theory.

Now, how to dig? I wish I could give you a better answer than ‘you’re on your own’. I’m sure even psychologists would say it’s very tough to get someone to open up, because people are so different. There’s similarities, but there are so many different experiences, that you might be fighting an uphill or unwinnable battle.

I’ve suggested, and still stand by breaking down his barriers by opening up yourself first. I don’t mean ‘hey I like sex too’ or anything like that.

I mean opening up to him about something that even might terrify you about yourself or about how you think, or whatever. Maybe an odd, weird or maybe even ‘sick fantasy’ that you think would gain societal frown-uponance. (I know that’s not a word, but it sounds like it should be and honestly, I’ve written so much already, my mind is making up words now)

Anyway, if you are able to show him that you have somethings that you might be ashamed of and are willing to share with him, then he may be willing to do the same with you.

But I wouldn’t necessarily expect in the same exact conversation for him to respond to you. And I wouldn’t ask him directly at that time. It should just be in conversation. I think what it will do is plant the seed. The seed of ‘hey, I’m not so bad or perverted after all.’ A seed that will lift some of that guard he has up right now.

If you have nothing like that to share with him, I honestly don’t know what else to suggest, other than start working on altimatums. I hate them, but they are at times a necessary evil.

Or, learn to not need to know all of this and accept it as it is.

I wouldn’t judge you either way based on your decision, but sometimes life really is as simple as ‘this is what I want in life…and my guy/gal isn’t providing it for me. I need to decide if what I want is more important to me than the other things that person provides for me’.

If it is, you move on, after giving it every effort.

If it’s not, you have to just maybe change or adapt your own thinking to accomodate so it doesn’t bother you.

I know it’s very hard to break down EXACTLY what I mean in this post, and if you’re a bit confused, please ask, or we can try to find some other format to communicate. I would never suggest using what I say if you don’t understand it completely because it might make things worse.

August 26, 2009 at 6:02 am
(74) Serah says:

I understand what you mean. And I’ve taken it into consideration.

It does seem to be a chore for him. And the ‘I’m too tired to want to have sex’, I know it means he’s too tired for something he doesn’t really enjoy. There are many details to this situation that may clear up things a bit. But just for the record, he’s never seemed to be the ‘pleasing the woman’ type. That’s why I liked and married him.

I’ve always found that respectful and pleasing attitude towards women (that most of the times is or seems fake) to be more offensive than pleasant so I married a guy who actually wouldn’t be bothered to bring flowers or open doors unless he really wanted to or felt like it. We’ve agreed since day one, that there’d be no lieing or unnecesary gestures, that we’d both be ourselves.

There was never a ‘does this dress make me look fat?’ and his saying ‘no dear, you look great situation’. It was more along the lines of ‘yes, it kind of does…try the blue one’ and I rarely close to never got offended. Just to explain better what kind of relationship I’m talking about. No free compliments, no showering of gifts upon me because we both agree we’re rather equal and it’s unnecesary. We’ve almost always shared money, and when we didn’t, none of us payed for the other one, we just split everything in half. This was agreed upon and none of us had any objections at any given time.

Moreover, (this might be subjective) but I’ve had the tendency to be more of the pleaser in this relationship. He’s the one with ‘I want’ and I’m the one with ‘Ok, let’s see how we can get it for you’ :) Guess there’s also the ‘maternal’ instinct that goes into play and I actually feel the need on occassion to pamper him.

You’re right about a lot of blame being thrown at men. I also take the liberty to say that in my opinion you’re even more in need of affection and a comitted relationship than we are, even if you don’t show it (of course I can be wrong, this is just an assumption), but you usually want to be sure if you really want something so serious as a marriage, whereas most women just jump into it, caring mostly about the ring and social status, rather than the person they are marrying.

I can’t hurry to blame men who don’t want to get married because I find it way more honest and fair for a man who isn’t sure he wants to stick to only one woman, or that he wants so much intimacy with a woman, to stay single till he decides what he really wants. Rather than getting tied up and being unhappy.

When I said different way to communicate, I was refering to e-mail since I’m kinda sick of trolling on this post with really long replies. My e-mail is Sapphirez@gmail.com. Feel free to answer there if you wish. And thank you again for the reply.

Regarding the ending of your post, I’ve already decided sex is less important to me than his company. I respect him having some stuff only to himself and I know I shouldn’t intrude on his business.

But I’ve left this as it was for a year, and leaving aside sex, he’s also grown colder from other points of view too. The more I left it alone the less he’d talk about other things with me, the more upset he seemed to be…you get my point. (either that or my frustration was obvious and that pushed him away). I also love him enough to want to make him happy, and to be completely honest, I’m a little reluctant to the idea that he might find what he wants in another woman, when I’m very much prepared to offer whatever he wants as long as I figure out what it is.

August 26, 2009 at 10:17 am
(75) PhilC says:

Socrates,

Interesting point, one I haven’t really thought of, but I think it does show a truer sense of men vs. women. Within homosexuality, specifically men more than women, it’s certainly not going to be a ‘conditioned’ response, because nobody is ‘taught’ to be gay, because of all the social stigmas associated with it (even though nowadays it’s certainly MORE accepted, it’s not fully accepted) Therefore, the natural interaction between the gay partners is more pure in terms of ‘this is truly how we are’. I feel it’s the same with men and women, but there are so many feminists trying NOT to accept it as such, that it blurs reality, and makes people question whether it’s nature, or conditioning.

Anyway, was not familiar with the ‘Coolidge effect’, and it was interesting. I especially enjoyed the story on why it’s called the ‘Coolidge effect’. Hilarious.

August 26, 2009 at 10:20 am
(76) PhilC says:

Serah,

I will respond to your email address, but give me a little time.

August 26, 2009 at 12:23 pm
(77) Socrates says:

Serah

You seem like a very accepting and open person, which I think puts you at an advantage in terms of making your relationships work. You also seem to be keeping it real, which is more than can be said for many out there living in a fantasy world. In any case, I thought you might be interested in the work of Esther Perel. She wrote a book called ‘Mating in Captivity’, which has since been translated into 20 languages and deals with the problems you seem to be experiencing. I think you will find it very helpful. She has a pretty strong grasp of why the erotic aspects of a relationship can create as chasm between the sexes and provides fresh ideas for dealing with this. Here are 3 links. The 1st is a roundtable discussion she took part in, 2nd is her website and 3rd is an Amazon link, not necessarily to buy the book, but to read the comments to get a flavour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwr_BSWKLLo&feature=channel_page

http://www.estherperel.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Mating-Captivity-Reconciling-Erotic-Domestic/dp/0060753633

August 27, 2009 at 3:55 am
(78) Serah says:

@ PhilC
Ok, thank you, I will await your response.

@Socrates
Thank you for the reading material, I will look into it. I know that from a biological standpoint a monogamous relationship is a drag. Maybe moreso for males than females (but not by a huge extent i think). The Coolidge Effect makes perfect sense. And it was actually necessary throughout time.
I see it more as a impulse/reaction than a need though. Along the lines of…if i hit myself, i will feel pain. If i see a new female, i will feel arroused and in the case of females, if i see a better male i will feel arroused.

On a side note, I guess that’s why sexy lingere has such an impact, it gives the male brain exactly the same signals, of something different = new female.
Same goes with perfume, different hairstyles, and explains why most females feel the need to change their appearance a lot. So, thankfully the human brain probably can be tricked over and over with a little bit of skill and effort.

August 27, 2009 at 10:37 am
(79) Serah says:

@Socrates

Thank you very much for recommending that book. It did make me see things from a different perspective and hopefully it will help a lot in the near future too. :)

September 27, 2009 at 6:49 pm
(80) tonysprout says:

Porn is different for each person. I don’t enjoy watching men have sex. I enjoy simple pictures of nude women in varying poses. As to why I think men watch porn: it was previously mentioned that porn and masturbation is a relief valve, but from what? Men are biologically programmed to seek as much sex as possible. Women are programmed for a longer committment to reproduction. Once a modern male has committed to a woman, he finds he still wants other women. Some men cheat outright, others, myself included, consider their committment important. I use porn to “cheat”, or in other words to ensure that I don’t seek other women. I don’t want to get into too much detail because it is personal. I enjoy my fantasy life, and I enjoy being with the woman I have committed myself to for 20 years. I don’t expect her to physically change to meet my fantasy expectations.

October 12, 2009 at 1:20 am
(81) Kim says:

Its been very interesting reading so many different opinions on porn.I am a 43 year old attractive fit sexual woman that seems to want a more sexual relationship than my 39 year old partner. My partner has looked at magazines and watched porn most of his life and never been in a very long committed relationship. I on the other hand have been married and only been in longterm relationships. Is this longterm use of porn and lack of intimacy the cause of very little sex between us is my question….He says he is very attracted to me sexyually…so is it just easier to be selfish and masterbate to porn…I get turned down too much, is having sex that much of an effort, or what, I am not hard to please and like quickies and dont ask to be romanced to have sex so what could be the issue…I am not a dirty porn girl is that the problem….

October 12, 2009 at 2:20 am
(82) kim says:

But Tony you are seeking out other women and cheating. Cheating is cheating, call me old fashioned if you want but if you are desireing another sexually it is cheating . my partner doesnt see it as cheating but I asked him if he would be ok if I masterbated to porn and he said no he wouldnt want to be with me if I did. Ok then this double standard works well for men doesnt it.If men want to look at porn and masterbate then thats fine but dont make an issue of it if your women does it.I prefer to save it for my partner but do understand it is neccesary to look after yourself sometimes , just dont make too much of a habit of it and take away from the sexual needs of a relationship

October 15, 2009 at 9:49 am
(83) Bob says:

Sure there are differences between the sexes. Yes, in general men are more visual when it comes to sex, but this is no excuse to reduce sex to only what a man can see. There needs to be chemistry, but there are so many ways for this to be developed other than using one of our senses. Sex is a profound form of communication between two partners. Men who use porn are just short changing themselves. They lose their ability to communicate with women. There is no substitute for a real relationship and the deep fulfilling sex from truly pleasing your partner and coming together physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Over time porn erodes a man’s ability to see a woman as nothing more than an object and crave sex that is nothing more than a physical release. Porn creates a desire in a man to only want sex on his terms. No woman should ever settle for a man who only wants to masturbate himself with her body. My wife and I have been married for 15 years. She had breast cancer and had her breasts removed 5 years ago. Sex was great when she was young and beautiful by anyone’s standards. Today it is even better… I can’t imagine being more attracted to a woman that I am to her. The attraction I once experienced with my eyes I now experience with every part of me down to soul. A guy will never understand this until he puts down the porn and is willing to be a man.

October 29, 2009 at 6:10 pm
(84) CE says:

I stumbled on this discussion and think I have something to add here, though I could be wrong.

First of all, just for reference, I’m a 38-year old male with an advanced degree, secure high-paying job, a beautiful wife and the most perfect 4-year old princess daughter you could possibly imagine…so I have a lot to be thankful for that brings happiness to my life. That all being said, the hardest parts of our 12-year marriage revolve around the different views my wife and I hold about what a healthy sex life is. It’s clear to me that I have a much higher sex drive than my wife does, which I wish wasn’t the case, but it just is.

A couple of statements that I feel compelled to make are as follow:

I think it’s true that men and women have, on average, different proclivities regarding sex. I believe men are more end objective oriented and women are more process oriented, which would explain why men tend to be more visually stimulated (which is a more basic reaction to the anticipated end goal) and women tend to be more emotionally stimulated (which is a more complex reaction toward the process or experience of sex).

I think my above statement is VASTLY influenced by an individual’s personal life experiences and, thus, we are all, as humans, scattered about the sex continuum more or less evenly with men as a group having a slightly more dense scattering toward the objective side of the line and women as a group having a slightly more dense scattering toward the process side of the line…to account for our base tendencies.

I know I’ve read something about men being more genetically disposed toward polygamy and women being more disposed toward monogamy as a function of evolution, if you believe in evolution. The theory is that early man was naturally driven to mate with as many high quality females as possible so as to increase the likelihood of his genetic code surviving to the next generation. Early woman, on the other hand, would have had a strong tendency to attach to a single male with favorable attributes (strong, good hunter, capable defender, etc.) who was able to provide for her needs and the needs of her offspring so to increase the likelihood that her children would survive to adulthood. I personally believe in God, and therefore don’t naturally attach to this concept…but the theory seems logical. Otherwise, I don’t know how you explain why so many men have a hard time staying focussed on a single woman, other than that men are generally weaker in their convitions than women, which is a theory I also don’t like.

I have at times in my life used pornography as a visual stimulant, especially when not in a committed relationship, purely for the purpose of satisfying my basic physical sexual desires. It was purely a physiological thing with no emotional attachments to the experiences. My wife has a very negative opinion of pornography and, therefore, out of respect for her wishes, I choose not look at porn, though I have absolutely no moral or philisophical opposition to adults choosing what I right for themselves in their own lives and relationships…therefore, smoke ‘em if you got ‘em, right?

I heard it said once that in order for a person to have a successful marriage or committed relationship, they first need to get divorced…from themselves. This is to say that people need to separate themsleves from their own selfish needs and desires and focus on their spouses or significant others. Only in living for the happiness of another can we be truly satisfied in ourselves and our relationships.

I guess my point is that I can buy the idea that we, as unique genders, have built in tendencies, but to have a healthy and truly happy marriage or relationship we need to divorce ourselves from our basic needs, have a bit of self control and focus on making each other happy. I think that if each person in a relationship does that, each person’s needs and expectations get met and then we become satisfied. Perhaps that scenario includes the use of pornography as a recreational drug (so to speak) or perhaps one party makes the conscious choice to set aside their own needs for those of another…

October 31, 2009 at 1:06 am
(85) James W S Parker says:

You see, this article bases the assumption that all men are sex craving, beer drinking, pornography watching cheaters; and although many might not consider that, a lot of men would.

For example, I never think of having sex with a woman randomly, nor do I need pornography to survive my daily choires and I’m a straight male.
I take interest in women, like women do men; it’s nothing more than the encouragement and upbringing of other men who ARE like that, that actually makes everyone like that.

It’s in the clear instance that the female who wrote this article has found a man maybe knows the wrong people; I have two sisters and all they talk about daily is sex.

the motto of the story is, whatever happens is meant to happen; it’s biology and the opposite gender always seem to have something against it. You can’t change the body.

Asking a male to stop taking interest in other females appearances is like asking a woman to remove her breasts; it’s impossible, men are attracted to ‘women’ in most cases, and like anybody… the first impression is appearance.

November 4, 2009 at 5:11 am
(86) hestia says:

ce, i’m struggling to understand the relevance of you having a higher degree. afterall, academia supports most average levels of intellect.

james, an interesting contribution.

philc, you fail to recognise that women largely accept the biological impulses of men, hence the quandary they find themselves in – the struggle to reconcile that with the whole person, the relationship, and the whole around them. that’s because they view men as being more than the sum of their various wanking sessions and prefer to give them more credit. but in your pursuit of wrapping the debate up, you do men the greatest disservice failing to do the same.

here’s an interesting article, written by a bloke, with blokes contributing, that penetrates (if you’ll excuse the pun) some harsher realities, and attempts to go beyond the cardboard dimensional strict biological basis of the argument. we’re humans, not animals.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/08/gender.weekend7

November 14, 2009 at 8:37 am
(87) Socrates says:

hestia

Only, we are animals. We are bipedal primates. We are not solely motivated by our rational capacities, but are influenced greatly by our biological dispositions. To quote Camille Paglia:

“If middle class feminists think they conduct their love lives perfectly rationally, without any instinctual influences from biology, they are imbeciles”.

November 15, 2009 at 6:08 pm
(88) Deborah Kelly says:

The word “pornography” comes from the Greek word “porneia” and “graphos.” The “porneia” were those women who were considered to be of no intrinsic value except as receptacles for men. Anyone could do anything to them, including killing them, with impunity. If people are speaking out of respect for women and children when they describe consuming graphic (as in writings, films, the Internet) sex acts, then that is not pornography.

If it is true that men think nearly constantly about sex, then why are they running this world? Wars are clearly violent sexual acts committed against those who are deemed to be of no intrinsic value.

November 21, 2009 at 4:50 pm
(89) Samantha C says:

Scanning through this list of comments, I see a very one sided debate. I don’t question men’s need to watch porn, I don’t question that women are more attractive when they make an effort to stay fit and healthy, look nice, etc.

However, the debate for the future is whether visual image is really more necessary for men than women. I think women actually impede themselves by denying their own sexuality, their own needs. They do not want to be viewed as sexual creatures, so they get angry when men treat them that way. On the other hand, what about treating men like sexual creatures, and demanding that their men take better care of themselves?

In this age, where women comprise half or more of the workforce, we are coming to a point where women can provide their own security; hence whether or not a man has a job, money, become less important, and physical attraction in turn, becomes more important.

I see complaints from men that they turn to porn because their women won’t have sex with them, they aren’t as attracted to their woman/wife/gf any longer. But what are THEY doing to keep themselves fit, so that their women desires to come to them for sex.

My boyfriend and his dad have been commenting about his mom’s recent weight gain, and that she keeps eating junk food, and exercising isn’t working. On the other hand, his dad is LARGER than his mom, huge beer gut, and eats plenty of crap – just rather than sweets, he tends to eat fattening meat, steaks, etc. Not once have his own poor eating habits and weight been pointed out.

I don’t question that attractiveness bears into sexuality, but I do question that society unilaterally places the need for attractiveness on women and less so on men. Men, quit playing videogames for hours on end, watching porn for hours on end, then bitching about how you don’t get sex. Haul your ass to a gym and put away the beer and cookies.

November 24, 2009 at 4:59 pm
(90) Anon says:

How is watching porn different than walking with your girl and looking over another woman? You don’t have an emotional connection, but most women would call that man a dirtbag.

The fact remains that women feel that the attention should be undivided from them. What is a wife’s role, traditionally? To fulfill the wants and needs of her spouse (as should a Husband do the same.)

I’ll be honest here- I’m angered by the “it’s okay because he doesn’t have any heartstrings attached” theory that seems to be the basis of this article.
If a woman has an emotional relationship on the same caliber to fulfill the places where her spouse fails, we call this cheating. But it’s okay for a man to replace his spouse with porn just because it satisfies a physical need?

No one seems to be talking about the damage it can do to a woman to see her spouse looking at porn. No one talks about the feelings of inadequacy, or the thoughts that his preference may lie somewhere that isn’t her.

November 29, 2009 at 7:42 pm
(91) Spanky the Monkey says:

It took a while, but I finally got to the latest comment!

@PhilC, you’re a bore, I suggest you lose some weight (i.e. use fewer words) and make yourself more attractive (by being more succinct), then I might be interested in engaging with you or taking you seriously, but {yawn} I’d rather jerk off to porn…

@Socrates, thank you for your input (you’re obviously a man who pays attention to the weight and appearance of your writing), and for pointing me to the Coolidge Effect and the reuiniting website!

My 3 cents’ worth:

1. I think the solution is for men to pluck out their eyes and tongues, and chop off their hands, balls and dicks, as it is these body parts that cause most offensive male behaviour. Alternatively, we all need to rise above the mind that identifies with the physical and egotistical…

2. I think it is as hard to be in a relationship and monogamous in thought, fantasy and action, as it is to be single and celibate. Especially if you have been exposed to sex in any form with yourself or others, directly or indirectly.

3. I wonder if the biggest part of our collective problem as hubeings (humans, huwomans, huchildrens) is reconciling the imperfections we see (in ourselves, others, relationships, the world, etc.) with our fantasies and delusions of what we want to see in and around us. All our needs and desires will never be met in ourselves or others, yet we constantly strive – and fight – to achieve them.

Peace (an end to fighting)
StM

December 3, 2009 at 11:21 pm
(92) sasha says:

I was not able to read all of the comments that were left by Phil C and the others and had to skip to the end to leave this message.

I agree with both sides! I think that women should try to stay beautiful and all women are. Yet, to equate beauty to the plastic looks of T.V. and the internet queens is false. This is not what real life is about and why try to bring this into a life? Bad

Also, I found this site by trying to research the whole idea of PORN and its importance to men, as I am feeling sad as my boyfriend seems to want to look at 20 yr olds. I am a young 40 yr old, have a rock hard body and face that has been stated to be beautiful. Yet, he wants this other stuff. I have talked to other men about it and they say: Bogus. Men in a relationship shouldn’t need this CRAP, and they validate the fact that I am beautiful.

Further, I had the thought today that PORN seperates the BOYS from the MEN. Boys may need to find some other game-like fulfillment while men are able to have some self-control and integrity.

I did like the comments made by one man “Jim.” Jim stated he just needed to jack off to get on with his day because his wife wasn’t as horny as he and he was … she had already had 5 orgasmims that morning and well.. he needed some more that afternoon and she, while beautiful, was already “spent.”

Okay, I get that. I have masturbated myself! I needed to do it to get on with my day because my boyfriend was not around. BUT, did I need porn to do it..? NO. I masturbated to thoughts of him. SO, I ask, why cant a man do the same? Can a man keep sexy photos of his beautiful partner and masturbate to her? I think he probably could.

December 6, 2009 at 8:00 pm
(93) Socrates says:

Why can’t a man do the same? Bottom line is men, as a whole, are going to behave like men, not women. We can also establish that a human is a man due to the presence of two distinct chromosomes (XY) and age beyond adolescence, not because of his conduct. Sexual appetite and the desire for variety does not discriminate between great minds and stupid minds, that’s what makes it such a great leveler. Many across both groups succumb to temptations of the flesh. It is what it is.

December 11, 2009 at 10:45 pm
(94) Mike says:

Found this discussion and while PhilC’s posts are months old I want to comment. I read all of the previous posts and I have to agree with about 99% of what PhilC is saying. He is being incredibly honest about how most men think about women. I never read anything were he said that women have to exist only to please a man, or look a certain way for a man. But he did point out that men have typical desires or needs in a woman and women have typical desires in a man. He only asks that women not look at how a man thinks as wrong, but try to accept it (as hard as it man seem for you ladies).

I think the real issue is that not only are men stimulated visually, we seek VARIETY. We are programmed this way. Some of us look at porn as a way of fantasizing about having this variety instead of acting on our desires. Some men may cause harm to their relationships by focusing on porn way too much, but for many men, occasional porn in just normal for us. Again, we are not wrong to seek variety, we are programmed this way.

I also am a successful, happily married man with a Masters degree and an excellent career. I am quite normal.

Also for me it’s not just that many women in porn are in shape physically, but that they make themselves look sexy in how they do their make-up, how they wear their hair and whatever sexy or yes slutty outfit they may wear. Most men enjoy the slutty look often and don’t have the courage to really explain this to their wives. And while I adore my wife, I realize that I can’t expect her to get all super sexy dressed up in the bedroom for me all the time, yet that’s what I like about 90% of the time. So I enjoy the visual stimulation of porn and also the variety of looking at many different women.

Another point. When I was younger, I had a large collection of porn on video – you know the joke, the typical male “secret stash” of porn -lol- but when I met my wife, I threw all of it away – and it wasn’t easy. I liked that stuff. But I felt guilty over having it, as I wrestled with my nature. But soon it became all too easy to find porn online with the touch of a button on the computer and now I see it all the same! If it’s available it’s very difficult for me not to want to see occasionally (like once a week let’s say).

Men are not into porn more than women simply because it’s socially acceptable and they were raised to like looking at naked women. I started staring at girls legs and trying to look up girls skirts when I was in junior high school and I never had access to porn at that age, but the porn was IN MY MIND all the while.

Three years ago I went to Italy on vacation. We went to Pompeii which was a city destroyed by a volcano in 79 AD. There are mosaic paintings that are graphic depictions on men having sex with women in all sorts of positions, and I even saw one where a man is depicted having sex with a woman backwards while another man is behind him – ahem – I was truly shocked at how graphic these 2000 year old mosaics were. But it’s obvious that men have been desiring sex in a profoundly physical way and desiring to see IMAGES of women having sex for quite a long time. This is nothing new. I even saw carved relief penises on the street – carved into street stones, believed to point the brothels. If you want to see for yourself, just Google Image search “Pompeii Penis” or “Pompeii Sex Mosaic”.

Another way to point out how natural it is for men to desire sex from many partners and in such physical ways is too look at the behavior of gay men. Gay men desire other gay men and variety of gay men exactly the way that straight men desire women! It’s how men are wired. It’s not a straight or gay thing. It’s a MAN thing.

Sex and women are like drugs to men, simply meaning we have a need, almost an addiction that we constantly battle, but it is not a bad need, it is just how we are. The best way to explain it is that it is like hunger. When you eat you are satisfied, but the next day your desire to eat returns. This is how it is for men. We can’t control our desire to need sex and to want sex, and to want to look at naked women and porn, we can only control ourselves to not cheat with another woman. If your man looks at porn and does not cheat on you, you should realize that you actually have a good man if he is good to you in every other way as well. You just don’t know how hard it is to stay faithful! When we are faithful, you should realize that porn may be helping us to stay faithful. Now if a man looks at porn all the time and ignores your needs then that is not good either, but the problem is not that the man looks at porn – the problem is that he ignores your needs, and they are likely unrelated.

Another reason men look at porn and then take care of business themselves – I’ll speak from experience here – some days I get horny out of nowhere and my wife may not be home, she may be busy, she may be asleep in the other room, and I don’t want to bother her sometimes. Yes sometimes it simply is easier to just handle things myself and take care of business myself. Then I can get on with my day and think clearly about other things as another male posted. I can’t expect my wife to just suddenly stop what she’s doing all the time to give in to my sudden urges, although sometimes she will, but I don’t want to ask her to do that all the time. The truth is, while I love my wife, she can’t keep up with my constant desire for sex, I would wear her out, but I love her regardless of our imperfect sexual compatibility. Plus sometimes, I just LIKE taking care of things myself because it feels good. So all you ladies out there can think I’m a disgusting male or you can try to understand and accept that most men are like this.

Plus my wife will never, ever act in the fantasy-slutty way I would like in the bed that often. I have explained my desire to her over and over again. But I also don’t cuddle with her as often and as long as she would like. I don’t whisper romantic things to her as often as she would like. But we meet each others needs enough to make our relationship work. I would never leave my wife because she’s not “slutty” enough in bed. But that still doesn’t stop me from desiring that. And my desire to look at women having sex will never stop.

Now the question could be – is porn wrong? Or is looking at porn wrong? Perhaps I could agree that MAKING porn is wrong. I know that I would never make porn. But one thing that is NOT WRONG IS MY DESIRE TO WATCH NAKED WOMEN HAVING SEX! If video porn was never made again, and all the magazines with naked women in them were banned, I would probably find a drawing of a nude woman and jerk off to it. It would have to be a pretty nice drawing though – lol. That’s how men are. I am not being funny here. My nature is not wrong. If it is, than 99% of men are imperfect and flawed creatures because they are wired the same way. I think what PhilC was CLEARLY saying is that men have certain desires as well as women and he wants women to just accept men instead of judging them! It is not wrong to want a women who is shapely, and who is sexual. I will always want that. I am also attracted to intelligence, creativity, and values as well. But I would have a hard time choosing to be with a physically unattractive but smart woman, over a super hot (in my opinion) woman who isn’t as smart. Ideally I want both a smart, creative strong and sexy woman! And the world is full of them. But that still won’t stop my desire for looking at other women.

Ok, I hope this helps this discussion.

December 13, 2009 at 4:55 am
(95) Makel says:

Mike,
What you wrote was quite helpful. Obviously heterosexual men have a strong desire to see the female form engaging in sexual acts. I don’t think it’s bad that men are attracted to the female form. I also think the ‘slutty’ ones help a guy feel okay about what he is desiring because she presents as wanting sex just like he wants it. She represents a female who wants him to be that way.

It seems men and women are going to struggle with this for a long time. I agree that watching porn is meeting a guys visual sexual / variety needs and I think a lot of effort is going toward educating women regarding this need and aims at encouraging them to be understanding about it. There are tons of websites encouraging women to go to strip clubs with their men to be supportive good wives. However, I agree with ‘Anon’. Just like men desiring variety and a little extra, many women have emotional needs their husbands do not fulfill. Perhaps wives / girlfriends should be excused for making strong emotional ties to co-workers or guys at the gym to meet their flirting needs for feeling desirable etc. Given that this need is very real for a lot of women it is reasonable for it to be seen in the same light as the porn / variety need for men. If women and men understand they can’t fully meet their mates needs and desires and gave each other room to meet these needs in these reasonably safe ways things would be more equal.

Really it comes down to respecting each others differences – but making sure each person has the same understanding and opportunity to meet their needs.

This is where this porn thing becomes a bit problematic in a relationship. For many women (note I am NOT saying all) emotion is closely tied with sex. When they see hot looking males they also have a tendency to compare that male with their partner. It may be his amazing ability on the guitar, his physical prowess at sport, his amazing sense of humor or his fit toned body. Many of my friends have said they wonder what he would be like as a partner – maybe he would be a better lover…etc etc. This is where the problem lies. Women look for the best of the best for a partner (apparently this is ‘hardwired). When they see their husband / boyfriend looking at porn they believe (rightly or wrongly) that their partner is shopping for a better model and comparing her to all of the ones on screen. This is a very emotional experience for many women. They are thinking what he is doing is what they would be doing. Many women stop looking because they believe they have found the best of the best and cannot for the life of them understand why their partner is still shopping for others.

When the female experience is seen in this light porn is rather threatening and insulting to many women. Now although most men will not connect emotionally, a woman will see this no matter what he says because this is the only experience she has had. Men, please try to understand this difference. It is not about control or trying to ‘cut your balls off’ but rather two very different sets of needs and the unfortunate clashing of them. Mike, WOW! you said we have no idea how hard it is for men to be faithful and that we should be thankful that our men are just watching porn and not cheating. That is like saying you have no idea how hard it is for your wife to remain faithful to you and you should be grateful that she only flirts outrageously with a man from her work. I am sure you would be uncomfortable knowing she is meeting her deepest needs in another man.

My husband and I have met half way. If he wants to watch porn or go to strippers or whatever he knows he needs to be non judgmental and accepting of my in built need for connection however I see fit to meet that, or my need for physical touch (b/c visual doesn’t do it). My outlet might include dancing with other guys up front and personal at a night club, chatting to guys online or working out with the guy form work that tells me I’m cute. Needless to say with this kind of understanding about each other in built needs my husband is more than willing to dump porn – he said he would feel rejected if I did those things. So, as a grown up I choose to put my own built in desire for other male attention aside for the sake of my husbands happiness. Maybe some husbands / boyfriends could consider doing the same or be willing to extend the same green light to their partner.

Women do understand the male desire for the female form – really we do. We don’t ask our partners to never watch it as long as they give us the same respect in return. I might add, often if a partner does watch porn it is a given that his woman is going to desire greater reassurance regardless of whether he is hardwired that way or not because many women are hardwired a certain way too.

To men in general:

So before switching on the porn make sure it’s okay with you if your darling has a romantic picnic with her handsome guitar playing and funny co-worker to fill the rejection she may feel as a result. Do not worry she won’t have sex with him so she is not cheating. If all is okay go for your life ;)

You know the famous saying: Do unto others as you would have done unto you…

December 13, 2009 at 9:11 pm
(96) Socrates says:

Makel

I think your tit for tat example is only analogous if men are actually permitted to sleep with other women, instead of looking at them on screen or in magazines. Then, naturally, it would only be fair to allow the woman to get the emotional sustenance she desired from other men. Using your premise of equal but different needs, this would be a more accurate comparison because real personal interactions would be involved in satisfying these different but equal needs.

If one accepts your premise of equal but different needs, which I don’t entirely, then a more accurate comparison to porn use would be for women to seek an equivalent simulation or image that best provided the emotional food they required, without involving real encounters. Examples might be romance novels, films, maybe cyber-world simulations like ‘Second Life’. The moment you start involving real life interactions, the man must be permitted the same if we are to be fair.

Having said all this, I do not accept your equal but different needs premise. I accept that we all have different needs, but I do not accept that they are all equal. I believe that a typical man’s sexuality is a much stronger biological compulsion than a typical womans desire to tie it to her only. If this were not the case, women would be doing everything and anything to satisfy her man sexually, but this is not the case.

I think what PhilC was highlighting was that when it comes to relationships, the ‘official’ normative position in most Western countries is much more female-centric than it is male-centric. Because it is an area that interests them greatly, women have been able to establish a near monopoly amongst opinion formers in the relationship industry, not to mention the sexual shame encouraged by religion. Subsequently, many men find themselves censoring their opinions in public and going about their sexual business secretly in ‘respectable’ company. What PhilC was arguing was that more of the male perspective be adopted in relationships to balance the books, because at the moment it is definitely skewed. Many women out there seem to think what the Oprahs and Dr Phils of the world think, is normal and right, when this could not be further from the truth and only expresses ‘their’ perspective. Even worse, many of them seem to buy into the romantic comedy fiction so popular in Hollywood. Reality, however, is completely different, but facts don’t matter when you have alternative propagandas dominating the airwaves. It takes an astute and independent mind to avoid such delusions or a disposition that does not square with it.

Thankfully, we have some independent female voices out there like Esther Perel, Esther Vilar, Camille Paglia, Christina Hoff Sommers etc. That’s not to say they are always right, but I believe they offer a far more accurate assessment of relationships and sex than the current orthodoxy.

December 16, 2009 at 7:43 pm
(97) Katie says:

I have to disagree with something…you said that men don’t have sex with the women, but that they’re being stimulated by watching others have sex…well… I’m female and when I masturbate to porn I’m imagining myself with the male actor…(or at least his___) maybe men are different, but I highly doubt it..

December 17, 2009 at 11:02 am
(98) Ozzy says:

About porn and men: I think the kinds of discussions circulating in social discourses about men’s obsession with porn and the fact that some people are still ‘trying to figure’ it out is redundant. Men, and for that matter too, women have always, always been sexual beings, and watching porn, or delighting in sexual stimuli is not some new phenomenon that needs to be explained. Rather, I think the whole conversation itself about porn as a male obsession, reinforces these Western-psych folk myths that men are “visual beings”, thus situatings porn as a medium made only the “eyes” of men. We must be reminded that women too are visual (they have eyes) and they are sexaul (the get horny!). It’s not like when it comes to sex, women only like smell, and touch. Men like those things as well. However, in Western society, that for the most part we can all agree is patriarchal, also favours vison over the other senses. (Anthropologist call this the Occulacentrism of the Western world). I am an anthropologist as well. To appropriate Vision then, as a predominantly male trait, helps to maintain a dominance over the woman through the advantage of sight. In porn, women are “seen”, and men are “seeing”. The whole idea of POV is evident here. The problem I have with that is that people are passing off this pornographic convention as a natural, and trying to deduce social behaviour and cultural productions to the genetic traits of the sexes. To all the other men out there, you know what I’m talking about when you’ve seen a woman get turned on by vision: you need only reference your own sex life. As a straight guy, I’ve been watching porn since the internet, but now I’m looking for porn targetted to straight guys, that is woman-friendly, and that does not carry all the oppressive assumptions about the “nature” of our sex, that imposes a hegemony on how we ought to relate to one another.

December 20, 2009 at 7:35 pm
(99) Brit says:

What I would like to know is this….
If a guy in a relationship wouldnt go to a bar to get a girl to go home and masterbate for him, or wouldnt get on the net and find a girl to get on her cam to play for him……then why would he look at a girl who is payed to do it for him?

Is it different because he hasn’t had to work for it? I think not. In the end, it is ANOTHER girl, you havent had to work for it, you are still letting yourself get turned on by SOMEONE else.

They say it’s “just a thing a guy does”, but why do women feel so threatened by it? Because these men make vows to be “only” theirs, but sorry there’s a clause in our marriage vows, “only when we dont have sex, then my dick, my eyes and my mind are someone else’s”, for better or for worse?

Not only in marriage, in a comitted relationship, “I watch what I like” Well, if you like watching something else than what you have, why are you with that person? Because the porn star cant jump off the computer screen and make you dinner?

I understand that men are very different from women. But these men who make these excuses for “mind and sexual” infedelity obviously are wanting more. wanting cake and eating it to.

For men who are in relationships, married or whatever. You keep telling us women to be “open minded” and just understand. But what needs to happen is for it to go both ways. We are very hurt by this. We are self concious. We have problems already with men who cheat, lie and worry enough about if we are good enough to this man who we have committed to. It’s bad enough that ( it may not always be sexually) we as women work hard to take care of our men, and yet they still need more to “stimulate”. It is what it is men. You are watching other women to get off. That’s how it’s always going to be for us. We have enough competition with the hot blonde that talks to you at the bar when we are getting a drink, or someone who gives you eyes when you walk past them. Now we have to feel like we compete with a skinny, brunette that is doing things on a computer screen that we can’t even start to think how to do.

Please guys, take a minute to think of how your woman is feeling about this. Because if she is really as important to you, there would be a way to figure it out.

December 20, 2009 at 8:22 pm
(100) PhilC says:

I am really finding your posts interesting. It brings alot of insite to somethings I had never thought of before. But can the world really be that black and white?

For instinace your engagement/marriage comments, I completely believe that women shoot orders at their men without thinking of what they need to do in return.

If a woman pledges her love, and doesn’t want the ring, the ceremony, the house, the baby, she just wants him, can a man really give the same? I know for a fact alot of men would be relieved at the fact their woman would not want all of that. But what would a man give in return. Is that really unconditional love? The whole point of marriage (even though it has been lost over the years) is every aspect of a couples life is to be just about those 2. Now how can it be that a couples “sex” life be just about those 2 if a man is saying “this is something I need”. Because a fantasy is based on a want. A fantasy about another woman is based on a secret want of another woman.

A friend couple of mine has gone through a situation of where they lived away from each other and only go to see each other on the weekends. So during the week he had to use porn to get off. He said he had no choice, he needed it. Fair enough. But he wasnt willing to understand that as a woman she needed emotional and physical (not sexual) needs. But he wasnt willing to let someone else fill that need for her. How does this not make sense? Because she would be spending time and physically (not sexually) touching someone.

On one hand we have a mans “biological needs” and on the other we have a woman’s “emotional needs”. Both are needs that are the center of our very beings.

My point is PhilC, I agree with what you say, that we as woman need to be ready to give and recieve. But also, men need to be prepared to do the same. If a woman is willing to give up sexual intimacy because other woman are being used for “sexual stimulation” then a man needs to be willing to give up physical intimacy and let another man be used for that.

December 20, 2009 at 8:59 pm
(101) brit says:

Sorry PhilC i accidently put your name on my comment lol oops

December 21, 2009 at 12:14 pm
(102) PhilC says:

A couple of different posts to be made. #1, since it’s freshest in my mind, is to Brit, aka…PhilC, lol.

Anyway, to your first point, I COMPLETELY believe 100% that if you had a woman who decides she cares only for her man, and is doing so without wanting the things that come with it (house, baby, ceremony, ring, etc…), then, yes, she ABSOLUTELY positively deserves someone who then can love her just for her, and not for the sex.

However, I would say that’s just not reality in our world today. From both parties. I have never met a woman who loves a guy so much just because of who he is, that she’s not thinking or worried about those other things she wants so much. I’ve usually seen the opposite.

I’ve heard what I thought was an intelligent woman say ‘if he doesn’t want to give me the wedding I want, then maybe he just doesn’t love me and we’re through.’

And this was ok with the women in the room who had heard this. They all seemed to understand.

Yeah, I know you get it, but to explain to others on here, basically, that means her desire for her perfect wedding was far and away more important than the man she was with.

Of course, I will say it’s the same for men. My only point in all of this, is that with women, it’s glanced over and accepted as their ‘right’. For men, it’s disregarded as filfthy. That’s what needs to change, that perception and understanding.

Personally, I don’t think the ‘me first’ attitude will change for either side. Too much history, too much ‘human’ selfishness, too much pride for both sides.

That’s why I think the best alternate would be acceptance. It’s not the best way, but since the best way is unachievable, it’s the best alternate way, IMO.

And for your other point about the couple you knew. Let me say this, I’ll defer to what Socrates said, (not the real one, the poster above), and that is, your example of a guy having other women to fulfill his needs should be equaled by a woman having other men fulfill her needs…with porn, it’s not actual human interaction, it’s only visual stimulation that works with the mind.

In your scenario, I would say if a guy looks at porn, the female equivalent to fulfill her ‘emotional’ needs is to watch soap operas (for fantasy about how guys should act), or to read romance novels, etc…

If you want actual human interaction for women to fulfill her emotional needs, then that would mean you should allow for actual human interaction for men to fulfill his sexual needs.

I do believe we have too much of a romanticized vision of what marriage is. We somehow believe one person can be totally and completely able to fulfill all of our wants and needs selflessly. Doesn’t work that way.

So, I believe BOTH (I’m saying this for men, too) need to truthfully evaluate and identify your top needs in order, and from there, you basically, make a list. I do A for you, you do A for me. I skip B for you, you skip B for me, etc…

December 22, 2009 at 6:21 am
(103) country sweet says:

If slim attractive women are what men are attracted to why is bbw porn so popular? Is that what the women are looking at? SMILE……………………….

December 24, 2009 at 3:18 pm
(104) Socrates says:

Here’s a site which distributes some home truths with some humour. Here’s a taster. Enjoy the holidays everyone.

http://www.relationshit.com/girls-guide/about-guys/tripods-and-not-the-kind-you-set-cameras-on

December 29, 2009 at 10:27 pm
(105) Kitty says:

Randomly came across this article and read some of the comments below… WOW. I has to reply because some of the things said were pretty crazy.

I am physically, attractive, and fit. I am not jealous of other women in porn who are physically attractive, and fit as well (all us lovely ladies have to love one another right?). In fact my boyfriend and I watch it together and we both watch it alone. Who cares? I feel that sometimes women can feel insecure of other ladies (such as their man wants to be with them instead) most of the time it is not just the woman they watch it for but for the whole experience. Also I know MANY MANY woman who watch porn and like it! They like the ladies and men just as much as any other person. (All people have sex drives whether they like to admit it or not) Also, I am not saying all women feel insecure I know some poeple are against it for religious reasons as well as others.

On the other hand, some of the comments were pissing me off. Yes, a man wants a physically attractive woman (what THEY find physically attractive.. I know guys who like the waif body types and the curvier ones it is simply a matter of opinion). YES, I feel women should take care of themeselves and be healthy and do what makes them feel good BUT I also feel that men should do the same. It’s not just the men who are attracted to physical apperances but women as well. If I am going to be working my a$$ off in the gym he should put a little effort in as well (not saying he needs to have a super six pack and muscles that go on for days hell I wouldn’t love him less if he has more to grab ahold on *which is sexy!*) I feel it should be effort of both of the sexes to look good for one another. No man wants a slumpy woman as much as a woman wants a slumpy man. It’s all about a little give and take on both sides.

As far as sex. I have a very high sex drive sometimes I want it more than my boyfriend (which is ok!) We have been together for 7 years and I know for a fact he has been faithful as so have I. We are both don’t hide the fact that we watch porn (which I think is bad if you do hide it but I understand women and sometimes men even can make this difficult) but in order to have a healthy sex life you need communication. Me and my boyfriend get crazy with one another! In order for two people to be happy sexually you need to fulfil eachothers needs (whether it be staying healthy, trying new things, or making sure emotional needs are filled). And I by NO means think sex is just something to “get over with and move on the day” It is something human beings need with one another in a relationship (however I do understand when getting in the mood can happen at inapproprate times and you must get rid of it … but self control can still be practiced! such as relief from masturbation) Also if you are against porn but your mate is into it do your own film! (you can be just as creative as men and women and porn although I know some people prefer the change in scenery)

Self control must be practiced! We are sexual beings by nature but we are HUMAN BEINGS capabale of being considerate of one anothers emotions. Yes, if a wife (or husband for that fact) can feel that she/he can get away with having sex with their significant other for long periods of time they are gonna have a problem! Like one person stated, the man who was addicted to porn and didn’t want to have sex with his wife she goes onto resent porn and feeling sexually unsatisfied(both people are denied their sexual urges) sex is human nature and whether it be with wathcing porn or other means self-control and communication is key can still be practiced. Men may have sexual urges but they CAN practice self control (such as masterbation) and do not have to go revert to infedility and prostition (as do women).

Whoever says men needs visualtion (it is true for some men) but so do most women! I do feel however that some porn goes to extremes (yes whatever floats the persons boat.. but come on now?)

Men and women do have differences (no one is denying!) but I know some men and women who are complete opposite of sex generalizations.

How you feel about porn is your own decision whether you be man or a woman. Period! I know crazy sexual women and I also know the general type-cast of women who get married and stop having sex. I also know men who cheat and others who don’t have a desire for porn. EVERY person is different in some way. I think generalizations are unfair (because I certainly do not fit sexual generalizations of most women!)

A relationship needs to be a happy balance of life and sex (if all a person thinks about is sex then I am sorry there is a problem! lol) both are VERY important.

December 29, 2009 at 10:39 pm
(106) Kitty says:

Also, not all women like romance and weddings. Sure it is nice and I want someone to love and respect me as I hope the other person expects the same from me. I do not go into a relationship with expectations that the man is going to bring me candies and flowers everyday.

I do feel however, that both people can do NICE things for eachother. It doesn’t have to be “romantic” but showing one another you care about eachother is important whether it be a night of great sex or givin someone a gift (whatever your liking may be) I do agree that some girls (because I know some of them!) can have unrealistic expectations of romantic things that are supposed to happen. Yes, it is great if a man opens the door for me! (Very respectful and NICE) but if he doesn’t I’m not going to get pissed off I have two arms to open it myself.

I do not expect a man to do romantic things for me unless he wants to (which my boyfriend does occasionaly but I consider it to be a nice, appreciative thing rather than “romantic”) its like WOW you thought of me? Thanks!

I also feel that things like that should go both ways too! If you want a man or woman to show you respect show it to them too! (same goes for doing nice things for eachother)

As far as weddings. Who cares? As long as I have a faithful man who loves and respects me and my needs thats all I need. If he wants to get married (my boyfriend does as he has expressed this to me many times) then it will all happen in time. I don’t feel people should rush into a life long committment lightely and I do not look down upon others who are together and don’t (as sometims they are happier than those who are married). But it all depends on people views and feelings (religious or whatever it may be).

January 5, 2010 at 7:37 am
(107) Krissy says:

There has been an argument weaving throughout these comments that men are programmed to want variety. If you actually look at the scientific research that has been conducted women are also programmed to want variety. For example, at different points in their cycle women are attracted to different physical features of men. Both sexes are not not necessarily built for monogamy, you just have to look at the animal kingdom.

If you actually look back through our history it is men who called for monogamous relationships as they wanted to ensure the woman they were mating with was having their child. Sounds fair and reasonable to me, and it suited both sexes.

However, this whole argument for men NEEDING variety makes me think. Well…. why did you try to restrict us in the first place by saying through monogamy that we can’t have anyone else?

As a woman to be honest I think if women weren’t conditioned so much to not want sex or porn, porn would be much more useful to them. I NEED images to get off. Without them I’m flailing in the wind. So this whole men are visual, women aren’t is only partially correct. Women are visual too, but men have ALWAYS had the images available so they have become conditioned by it, and feel that is what they need to get off.

January 7, 2010 at 3:18 am
(108) Jenn says:

I just stumbled on this article, and tried to read all or at least most of the comments…I was doing a Google search for information about females who have a high sex drive being married to men who dont view sex in the typical way. All I mostly see here is “males this, males that”.I agree with the last poster Krissy! I like to look at what I consider hot men! I need visual stimulation!If a man isnt attractive to me, then why the hell will I waste my time dating him?He can just be a friend then! I dont like porn because I’d rather be the one having sex, than just watching some random people going at it!A turn on for me is a man with a nice face, preferrably long hair, and a slim but not skinny body(not musclebound)…Hmmm women arent visual?Well some are not and those are the ones who will date based on a man’s personality or his “wallet”! I always hear about men obsessed with sex, being so visual, leaving their wives or girlfriends if they let themselves “go” or there is no sex at home!!! Well what about women doing the same? I’m not planning to do that, but if I was the type then I would! Or I’d have a female in the same situation who I’m attracted to, be my “mistress”!We wouldnt leave our husbands, but we’d have our own fun quietly!Most of the time women are worried about being called sluts, weird, too picky,etc.! It’s the 21st century! Women watch two hot guys making out and enjoy it!!! Most men would have no qualms watching two gorgeous females doing the same!!!

January 12, 2010 at 10:18 am
(109) hestia says:

oh dear. i see philc has been relieving himself with crass stereotyping of women letting the debate plummet even further. what a shame. it’s interesting to note that despite the no-where in the tedious paragraphs, the male contributors here largely fail to register glaring acceptance and understanding of the biological impulses of men. is that the best you can do in response to their legitimate concerns? just to rehash narrow arguments on biology over and over? now we’re on to proving that women are sexual beings? the level of the debate is sliding so low it’s starting to make ground level look mountainous. man up, have some balls lads, change the frequency, and the decibels of laughably indignant outrage.

socrates, nice one with the moniker. presumably you meant that ironically.

January 14, 2010 at 10:46 pm
(110) kitty says:

Yep I feel that these sexual desires can both ways -man and woman. I want it as much as I can get it and am a visual being as well and that is strange or unsual because I am female? lol I know lots of lady friends who are the same way so its not as much of an oddity as is assumed

January 15, 2010 at 11:02 am
(111) PhilC says:

Hestia,

Really? GLARING acceptance? I’ve seen maybe 20% or so of acceptance of the male way of thinking in these posts. I applaud the women intelligent enough that get it.

My posts, though long, were directly the result of the other 80% or so of the posts that did nothing other than say ‘men are pigs for looking at porn’ (basically), which is a very dangerous thought pattern to have. Anyone with a brain would understand this.

Either take the time to read everything, or don’t comment on something you know nothing about.

January 15, 2010 at 11:40 am
(112) PhilC says:

Kitty,

I can agree with you to an extent…YOU may have a strong sexual desire, that’s fine.

#1) Don’t be naive enough to think that means ALL women feel the same. I would say you’re in the ‘less than 50%’ group.

#2) Even with your strong desires, don’t be so sure it’s the same as a man’s desire. That’s the point. Women want to say ‘hey I like sex too’ so that they can feel in control of the situation.

After all, if you understand EXACTLY how a guy feels, then you can have a certain amount of control over the situation. If you don’t understand, then you are left having to believe him. And if there’s anything that’s obvious about most of the women posters in here, it’s that women want control. Over everything.

But, the point is, YOU DON’T KNOW HOW WE FEEL ABOUT IT.

If you want to TRULY experience the sexual desires men feel, then you would knowingly put aside ALL OTHER NEEDS for the sake of sex, minus survival. That means sex over romance, sex over security, sex over money, sex over friendship, etc…

And, despite the fact that you may feel you want sex a lot, it goes much deeper. Read the article ‘socrates’ sent a link to. It’s pretty honest and to the point.

Problem is, most women refuse to believe it. And, as I’ve repeated MANY times, it’s that refusal to accept it and believe it (and not judge us for it) that is the root of all of my ramblings.

So, go enjoy your sex life. Do as you see fit with it. Just understand that your sexual feelings (unless you can say your desire for sex trumps all other desires in life minus survival) are not the same as it is in MOST men.

January 17, 2010 at 2:43 am
(113) BA says:

Alright, PhilC, no one has time to read your 25 page thesis.. I stumbled on this because obviously like most women, we dont get men, blah blah blah, usual differences bullsh**.

I am a young, intelligent, confident, attractive woman and have started seeing someone. This person noticed me at first, per se, because of my appearance, let me note. Now for all the ladies out there, women are all a bunch of LIARS! Unless you are that beautiful porn star image as PhilC states we should strive to be, the truth is, WE TRY! We try pretty darn hard and we can fool the rest of the world. Ex: Clothing that makes you look better than you actually are, makeup, cosmetic surgery, photoshop.. etc!!!

Now honestly I was about 80 percent fine with my image before I started dating this person. Then I discovered, curiousity killed the cat – that the person I was dating would habitually watch porn. Ok, thats cool, I watch porn to get off too. Then I delved again (cats have nine lives) to discover what KIND of porn the guy I am dating has been watching. Needless to say it grosses me out, and leads me to discover what kind of women my man prefers to be with upon talking about such things with him. Yes, he prefers a woman with fake unnaturally huge tits, a big ass, small waist, the ability to take it up the ass and choke on his cock too! Apparently my assets were what attracted him to me in the first place. Now I am someone who, has C cup boobs, a really good looking ass, and gained about 20 lbs due to not wanting to get pregnant (see effects of birth control :P its great). Yes, I will eagerly preform whatever sexual acts my boyfriend wants. Instead of having a great self image I now want to lose about 30 lbs that are practically impossible, magically make my breasts bigger.

So I have brought up his little obsession with porn, I see its natural, but then my snooping has led me to discover facts. What? He likes MILFS? Ok. He likes girls gagging on cocks? Ok, that explains the recent cumshot obsession. Then I discover that he watches porn WHILE talking to me or after we have sex. I’ve mentioned to him how I don’t like that he’s watching porn, he tells me its something he naturally does. So why cant he just think about me and masturbate?

But then he starts to try and mold me into the girls he’s watching… THAT I am not cool with. I am not some girl who had nothing better to do with her life when she was 14, nor will I go out and buy you lingerie that I have to wear. Why cant men go out and buy something sexy to show off to us? Do they really think that a pair of shorts and top will get us into the mood? Come on now, double standards… But really, these girls being jerked off to are so unrealistic to the point where its disgusting. Botox lips, triple digit augmentations, vaginas that have suffered more pounding than a boxing match. I was perfectly fine with our sex lives before every time we had sex turned into a replaying of whatever he watched the night before. In fact, come to think of it, I don’t really enjoy sex with him anymore, because all I can think of is him looking at pornstars he finds attractive and rubbing one out.

The funny thing is I ask my boyfriend if he would go out with a porn star, and he says no in disgust. He thinks they are disgusting whores who aren’t classy, low-life skanks that have nothing better to do with their lives. This I disagree with him but this response is amazing to hear coming from someone who enjoys porn as much as he does. Recently while shoe shopping he told me I should buy a pair of hooker boots and I said, “well, why dont you just date a hooker” since obviously he loves big unnatural fake tits. And his response, really, was “no, they cost too much” and I told him how much he spends on me, and then he reconsidered and said maybe he should. The f***! Really! I am tempted to break up with him because my self esteem has gone so low because of his porn addiction.

Truth is the second I start thinking about another man sexually, I fear I am being unfaithful, or on the path to. That might be why a lot of women go crazy when they talk about men and porn. Men are confusing and women can brag and say we know how they work but I think both sexes are completely wrong. Men, get off your high horse and women, stop trying to make yourself the better race.

January 23, 2010 at 4:46 pm
(114) Samantha says:

Phil,

Frankly, I think you’re making men out to be more sexual than they are and making women out to be less sexual than they are.

I completely disagree that men are more visual than women. The research isn’t there yet to show that. There was a study recently that indicated BOTH men and women were aroused by sexually explicit images, but that men were only aroused by images of women, while women could be turned on by women, even animals, etc. Women had much more variety in what turned them on.

We are still at the brink of comprehending a woman’s sexuality. For years it was thought that women had something wrong with them if they couldn’t orgasm from penetration alone sex, when the majority of our nerves end in the clitorus! Even today, it’s still debated whether or not the G-spot exists, and whether some women can squirt, and where squirting comes from! In this modern day, you would think we had figured out the women’s anatomy, but sex research is difficult to fund, difficult to conduct, and so our understanding of women’s sexual function remains ridiculously primitive.

For years, the porn AND media industry has been dominated by men’s concept of what a woman finds attractive vs. what women find attractive. They are only just starting to get it. Men have so much more sexually appealing images to see! If women had the same thing, would we look? Damn straight. The porn industry for a long time did not bother to look for sexually appealing men; even today, I find when I watch porn that I can’t find attractive men or large enough large and aesthetically pleasing penises to look at. Just as men may want to see large boobs (but not necessarily need/want them in real life) because they are eye catching, or women with small/shaved vulvas, women like to look at large penises ( for me below 8 inches or narrow penises are too small aesthetically), straight (not crooked), smooth (not veiny) penises. Women are growing consumers of pornographic materials (I recently read that Hustler now indicates 52% of its customers are women), and we don’t necessarily want the romantic style sex videos being marketed to us (personally I find those boring – I like real sex over cheesy porn plots, but I want it to be graphic). We also like seeing a man enjoy himself, and I get bored by porn videos that too often have the women squalking while they guy barely grunts even when he finishes.

Men also have so many more naked images of female celebrities to look at. If women had the same, we would look. There are all sorts of sites for men: Egotastic, Hollywoodtuna, Cityrag, etc. Do you know how hard it is to find something similar for women? I’ve spent hours scouring the internet!!! And it’s not just because women are less interested – men are simply less willing to pose nude. When the kid from the Harry Potter movies was naked in a play, girls everywhere bogged down the internet to see pictures of him in the buff! That’s the only celeb example I can think of that has been nude! Think about what would happen if Brad Pitt, the guys from Twilight, Jake Gyllenhaal, were to pose nude. Would women look? Holy crap, I’m wet just thinking about it. When the pictures of David Beckham in Armani underwear were released, it changed my life, and they caused a huge stir on the internet! I personally had NEVER seen a man photographed that way, and finally it was an attractive man rather than some cheesy Fabio-type. There are now growing explicit penis shots in TV/movies. The latest Sex & The City movie showed a penis (though they can’t show it erect, unfortunately), and I hope to see more in the future. The day of the penis visual is arriving.

Physically, women do have a more complex anatomy in terms of being turned on. We get off in different ways. But for those of us who do get off, who are able to figure out HOW to do it, do we want sex, do we like porn? Hells yeah! I watch porn as much as any guy does, I used to steal my older brothers pornos when I was a kid. You say men would forgo food, etc. for sex. I spend more time than most guys masturbating. Men get off, then they are done. When single, on a bored day with time on my hands, I’ve masturbated for five hours. When I masturbate, I’ll deprive myself of sleep – I’ve gone to work on two hours of sleep when I finally got my first laptop and internet connection, because I spent the night watching porn.

So you’ll say I’m more sexual then other women, and not all women are alike (last I checked, not all men are alike either – I’ve known guys who didn’t watch much porn at all and were happy with sex once a week. And that was when we just started dating, and I’m an attractive woman!). Further, sexuality in women early on has traditionally been discouraged, vs. encouraged in men. Parents often tend to worry about their daughter losing her “innocence,” yet have a double standard for their son. On top of that, women do vary quite a bit in terms of how they get off, with some learning to masturbate early (many start before adolescence – I can’t even remember my first orgasm, it must have been before age 3!), or not having an orgasm until their first sexual experience, or not ever orgasming. This physical difference can impact how much a woman desires sex, as she learns to BE sexual early on, or may never learn to be sexual. To complicate this, most women require clitoral stimulation during sex, but most men don’t realize it… which leads to 1) faked orgasms, 2) less interest from the women in sex because it’s less interesting to her. It will be interesting to see how this changes with growing openness and discussion of sex leading to women discovering and understanding their sexuality, what turns them on, specifically how to touch themselves, etc at younger ages. Further, with women being more self-sufficient economically, they now are more choosy. Consequently, the pressure is growing on men to look physically attractive, with the days of an ugly beer-bellied or dorky guy dating a hot woman just because of his money behind us. Now men have to look good, and just perusing some of the articles in my boyfriend’s Maxim or GQ shows that articles, men’s advertisements, etc. are increasingly focused on how to look/be attractive to women, in a way you’d typically see in a girl magazine.

Anyhow, bottom line, is that it irks me that you draw these strong conclusions about women’s sexuality vs. men’s sexuality when women are on the dawn of discovering their sexuality! The world is a-changing, and I don’t think your opinions are going to hold well in the future.

January 24, 2010 at 12:36 am
(115) Samantha says:

PhilC,

One additional comment.

I saw earlier you mention the Coolidge effect. The Coolidge effect was demonstrated in male rats, but tests to show the same effect with female rats were confounded by male rats’ tendency to fatigue quickly. Another set of researchers designed an experiment using female hampsters to get around the confound (using more males) and discovered female hampsters did display mating behaviors when continuously represented with a new male.

IN ADDITION, in primates, which are the closer species to humans, the Coolidge effect has been shown to be quite diminished vs. the effect in rats. In contrast, in primates, females and males display similar levels of promiscuity. Think about that. In primates, closer relatives to humans, yet animals (without societal restrictions, expectations, etc.), males and females have similar levels of promiscuity.

This would be an interesting read:

http://www.amazon.com/Female-Choices-Sexual-Behavior-Primates/dp/0801483050/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/179-3548851-3225034

February 9, 2010 at 11:25 pm
(116) Cupid88 says:

Ok, very intense disscussion here. Here is my situation. I am married (less than a year) and my husband beats off to porn everyday. This wouldn’t bother me except for the fact that we have sex almost everyday and he tells me all the time that he doesn’t look at other women or anything like that. A ontop of that, the women he looks at are very small, and have a completely different look from me. I’m not fat by any means, nor do I have an ugly face but when I compare myself to these whores I’m very ugly and shamu-esque. Why is he doing this? Why aren’t I enough? Do I need plastic surgery so he stops looking at them? Does he not love me?

February 28, 2010 at 12:07 pm
(117) untrustingshedevil says:

BA…I love you :) (female here) Came to this sight as most of us women probably have. Lying here looking at the man that sleeps next to you and wondering what really goes on in his head when he watches absolutely disgusting porn and justifies it. And all this ‘it’s the way we’re built’ crap makes me understand why women swing the other way for GOOD. And NO…you can’t watch. :)

February 28, 2010 at 12:23 pm
(118) untrustingshedevil says:

…as a side note…i love the man laying next to me more than life itself! So I NEVER give him sh*t about his porn. I internalize it. Nothing a good glass of wine can’t help you supress. Lol!

March 12, 2010 at 9:00 am
(119) Adam says:

Phil C, your a legend!
All the comments I read of yours are pretty much spot on.
I think what women need to accept is, women are women, and men are men, and we are not the same, not even close.

The whole world, and species has come together over millions of years of evolution, and for those of you who dont understand this concept, if its here, it worked, it was the best, so for women to change this in a few decades, you must be off your rockers!
The male of almost every species often has more than one sexual partner, males are suppose to spread the seed, and, men arent much different, except society over 100s of years has changed this, although some countrys, men still have numerous partners.

If you think im talking a load of bull***t, educate yourself, watch some documentaries such as walking with cavement, dinosaurs, monsters, mammals, and read a few books, “Origin or Species”

March 19, 2010 at 11:04 am
(120) Vanya says:

A friend is going through a huge, terrible, nasty porn conflict with his girlfriend. It’s threatening to end his relationship that he otherwise seems very invested in.

I can’t recall how many times I’ve been a part of this boring conversation where guys and girls at the table (filled with empty beer glasses) try to come to some sort of agreement over their views on pornography. Never works.

Thinking about it this morning, it seems like it’s important to approach this topic from a variety of perspectives. For instance, the curiosity perspective. Ever seen someone have 5 orgasms in a row? What would that even look like? Would it even feel good after like…the 2nd one? Wanna find out, just google it, I’m sure there is a video of it. So….why would someone never have this curiosity? Who wouldn’t casually ask questions about sex and look to internet videos to answer them? Women are so sexually demonized by our culture in general, especially porn culture, that this just isn’t a casual thing. If sex, outside the bedroom, is almost always something that portrays your gender getting group f***ed, ejaculated on, swallowing cum, or getting hooted at, hollered at, heckled at, groped at, or otherwise harassed…..maybe it makes sense that dabbling in porn out of curiosity doesn’t sound very appealing.

That’s not really getting into the deeper or darker sides of porn either, or all the issues going on there, but if I can’t even really justify the less controversial reasons to have this stuff, maybe it really is all bad.

Now I’m all about questioning the madness of having horror films and extreme violence in the movie theater while sex is much more frowned upon. Americans are ridiculous in this sense. Porn isn’t really about legitimizing sex or fighting censorship of the human form though, is it. Porn plays games in the realm of power and control, of men over women, period. Exceptions be damned, thats what’s going on.

As a smoker I can’t really explain why it’s so easy to do something you know is wrong, or bad for you, I wish I could though. I’m sure plenty of people don’t like porn, but find themselves glued to their computer screens watching something awful anyway. It seems like there are so many ways that we don’t know how technology will effect us in the long run, mentally. We just keep pushing on though, without stopping to think about things, or notice all the people getting hurt.

March 23, 2010 at 12:47 am
(121) JustAPornWatchingGuy says:

Why do men watch porn? Because we enjoy it. Like anything someone enjoys moderation does play a role, too much and I get a sore spot on my member… A better question I think is why don’t (more) women watch porn? Why do women feel insulted when they “catch” their men watching porn? Why do women feel porn is demeaning to women? Shouldn’t it be equally demeaning to men? Most male porn stars who are on screen with women are gay for starters.

Humans are “hard-wired” to enjoy sex. In America the puritan ideal has worked hard to make sure that women not indulge in promiscuity to the extent that many woman don’t seem to get off on sex, or fake it to make their man happy. This would seem to give women the idea that men are perverted, disgusting, unfaithful, and out right pigs, for the simple ability to allow ourselves to indulge in erotic thoughts, while stimulating ourselves physically, and watching the female form. Even if we are imagining or fantasizing about being with another girl, sometimes 2-3 at once, it is not indicative about how we feel about our women.

By the way, what if the porn doesn’t involve women? I know a guy that likes to watch people having sex with balloons and stuffed animals, what must his girlfriend think about what that says about her. Some porn has extremely fat people, other old people, not all porn stars are hot and not all men like the same thing. I personally want a girl who exercises daily and eats right, not fast food or the nearest cake or box of candy. To me its about being healthy and yes weight management can be difficult if you don’t care about what you eat and how it affects your body. I eat mostly vegetarian for the health, but I still eat a burger every now and then. Just like for the most part I’m celibate, but I enjoy the daily relief of porn… especially in the morning right out of bed before the morning wood goes away. When I have a partner at times sex is preferable to porn, but not when I just want to get it done and over with. I am sure many would agree (both men and women) that sometime sex is not worth the effort.

To an earlier post which says women are easy to get off… Its not all about the clit or g-spot or other erogenous zone, but the ability to make your partner feel stimulated. For men simple vision stimulation may often be enough to get us going, however it is my experience that women like a variety of stimulating sensations. They love to be touched, talked to, stroked, fingered and licked or even bit, I had one women once who wanted me to slap her face with my dick, hard! My dick hurt the rest of the day, it was enjoyable, but not my thing. Theme and mood mean more than how big a dick is, but then having a big dick probably isn’t a bad thing either. In other words they want it all while men “Just want to nut.”

March 23, 2010 at 1:50 am
(122) JustAPornWatchingGuy says:

Vanya,

I didn’t get a chance to read your post before posting mine, for some odd reason, but are you saying that women don’t enjoy getting group f***ed, ejaculated on, or swallowing cum? And equate it to “getting hooted at, hollered at, heckled at, groped at, or otherwise harassed”. As a guy I’ve had my ass pinched randomly by about 3 women and 2 men. I can only guess that women don’t like being groped by men for the same reason I don’t, because they don’t like the sexual attention of men. (I guess that would explain the lawsuits for sexual harassment.)

I agree women are sexually demonized, If you get horny and like sex, you are labeled as a slut, a thing no woman in America wants to be. As a guy I wouldn’t know what its like to be called a slut, instead prudish women call me a pig when I let my eyes wander a bit.

Desire and attraction are deeply primitive drives which we puny humans can not control, nor should we. However our actions and understanding are things we can control. We men need to understand and respect that women are insulted when we give them unsolicited sexual attention, and many women need to understand that men don’t mean to be insulting, many of us just think f***ing you would be a great way to pass the next 30 minutes. The other men who choose monogamy (which basically means they choose to be in a relationship with an American woman) will still feel that desire, and may unknowingly stare at you in open lust, but they would vilify themselves if they realized it.

March 24, 2010 at 4:43 pm
(123) trish says:

if it matters, here’s my two cents.

i really don’t care if my boyfriend looks at porn because i do the same thing, too. sometimes i can go everyday looking at it, or every other week.

it’s not cheating. it’s just arousal.

and just like the poster above me said “Why do men watch porn? Because we enjoy it.” i enjoy it a whole lot, too.

(i just simply can’t stand the disgusting weird stuff, so i stick to normal traditional porn.)

May 5, 2010 at 11:05 am
(124) Darkside says:

Good Morning.
I have been reading most of your comments and I have a few questions.
First off I want to know, if a man who continuously watches women on webcams while masterbating, is this addicting?
Does it affect his performance when he makes love to his partner?
Does repeated masturbation affect the sensitivity of his penis?
I have a friend who’s husband now cannot have an orgasm during sex, he can only achieve this through watching other ladies on webcams.
I am 64 years young and I love sex I have sex at least 4 times a day lasting in at about 2 to 3 hours in total. I love it in most of its forms.

My partner as well does not reach orgasm through sex..only in masturbation with online webcams.

I am pretty open minded but there are times where it makes me feel less.

I have watched while this is going on and even partook in some of the activity.
I am at a loss…I love my partner and he loves me, there are days where it is difficult to deal with.

Do any of you have any advice for me…
I am in good health and relatively attractive.

May 23, 2010 at 10:13 am
(125) Eloise says:

This is a poignant message to those out there that say porn is harmeless I would like to tell my story. I work with a guy who is married with daughters but feeds off porn all day everyday on his work computer. He sends and receives it, laughs at it and looks at me in a sexual way although I’ve had no part of it. One day he grabbed me in a dark corridor and pushed himself onto me. The look in his eyes was scary. i checked out the figures of sexual harrassment on the internet and men who view a lot of porn are 3 to 7 times more likely to sexually harrass a work colleague. I have had to report this man and I have been left feeling devastated by what he did. I would like to say to those who think porn is ‘healthy’ to give my story some consideration and think about how they would have felt in my position. Well you obviously have never been in my position have you.

May 29, 2010 at 4:50 am
(126) cosmos says:

I’d like to ask that guy with the three year old daughter if he would like her to be in porn movies when she is eighteen, with men old enough to be her father? Maybe he’d like his sister there too or even his mother or grandmother with some disgusting blokes cock in her toothless mouth!
Grow up guys and stop making excuses for your poor impulse control! You are all bloody lucky us women have anything at all to do with you!

June 5, 2010 at 2:04 pm
(127) Belle says:

Ok here’s my problem with this…

As much as the men on these comments have been defending their behavior, they have rarely acknowleged that women also have sexual needs. In their defense of variety and frequency, they’ve not only dismissed the abundant evidence to the contrary (check the amount of times women have submitted comments here who said they didn’t like sex versus the ones who want it all the time and can’t get it), they’ve dismissed that in indulging, they are relieving tension that their partners are waiting on them to relieve. And then, while chastising women for all the ways they should make themselves available to accept, they still refuse to accept that if they’re not paying attention to the woman at home, then quite similarly to men, they WILL find it elsewhere.

To the degree that there are men out there who specifically go for unsatisfied women in relationships with men who take these women for granted because they can reap the rewards of having and creating some kind of contact with her. Men are so quick to say that this is biological…that men are visual creatures and that women should just be accepting of the need for variety. Well, women are tactile creatures. They need physical stimulus. They need the physical fulfillment and need to touch to get off. But somehow, men who view porn instead of having sex with their partners are just fulfilling a natural role, while women who are being tactile with interested men, even though it’s acknowledged that women respond to touch the same way men respond to sight, who are just trying to vent their frustration and “take the edge off” are considered sluts or homewreckers and are worthy of scorn.

That is a double standard.

I agree with several of the above posters. If men are going to stick to the claim that their need for variety and visual stimulus as well as a voracious appetits are grounds for supplanting sex with their willing partners, then those same women should be able to fulfill their very present need for tactile stimulation and release for their sexual desires. And don’t let us forget that men reach their sexual peak at around 18 while a woman reaches hers around 35-40 meaning that as much as you men like to claim women are not interested, women are scientifically proven to be more and more interested over time.

July 6, 2010 at 3:12 am
(128) Jenna says:

Women are JUST as visually stimulated but don’t talk about it.Plus women being visual is not encouraged in our society.In a man’s buddy system,a man is expected to make comments about a woman’s appearance yet women tend to feel it’s not our place to look at men..sad!Men and women are equal in visual stimulation but so many idiotic beliefs need to be weeded out for people to believe it.

July 8, 2010 at 11:04 am
(129) riri says:

It is the new “Boys will be boys” This “Men are visual” is their new excuse to act like immature jackasses. Women do not like to date men that they find unattractive either. Most women need to look a little deeper than appearance. I think that most emotionally mature men and women would agree that attraction is important yet not enough for them to have a long term relationship. Mature men will find the visual statement to be offensive as the” boys will be boys” statements of the mid 20th century. It suggests they have no control over their impulses. How insulting to emotionally mature men. It gives the immature pigs an excuse to continue with predatory behavior.

July 11, 2010 at 10:36 am
(130) Arya says:

In my experience it seems like the guys that NEED porn to get off (the ones who are addicted to it) feel insecure about themselves. There is one guy I know that has the d*ck of a 10 year old boy and he’s married but d/l porn like no tomorrow and will hit on girls at bars and try to get their numbers. It’s not about wanting to cheat on his wife, but rather it helps him to feel better about himself. He can get off to porn, but it’s scarier to be in a sexual relationship with a real live woman because there is a chance that HE is not good enough. When it comes down to it, guys have very fragile egos. Sure there are guys who just want to get off, but guys that look at this stuff in lieu of being with their gfs/wives have body/security issues going on.

July 22, 2010 at 2:53 pm
(131) Sarah says:

I have read most of the comments on this page, and I have to say that I’m truly disappointed by the great deal of ignorance coming not only from men but women as well.

Many of your comments are showing a lack of empathy toward the human race in general. Pornography, like copious amounts of alcohol, any amount of drugs, and promiscuity, are in fact (yes, fact) damaging to all human beings involved. If I were to go by all of the research put out thus far on pornography consumption, the findings are definitive proof that it is harmful; not only to each individual consumer’s brain, but to society as a whole.

Some comments have implied that pornography is ‘just a form of release’. I am not about to disagree with the fact that men and women both get aroused by things they see. How does anyone with the sense of sight choose a partner? They do so with their vision, first and foremost. That fact alone, however, does not pave the way for pornography. That initial arousal at seeing sexual activity is built in us for one purpose only: to find a mate and reproduce. In no way is pornography harmless or victimless. Sure, some of the women in the porn industry are there by choice, but the majority of them are psychologically impaired or desperately trying to make ends meet in what they see as a last resort. But, for purposes of explaining my point…let’s use the psychologically balanced porn actresses. By having sex for money (if you don’t see the problem with that ALONE, save us all) they are objectifying themselves and the entire gender, as well as blindly perpetuating female stereotypes (women secretly want to be rammed hard by anyone with a big penis, have endless fantasies about being raped and eventually liking it more than any sex they’ve ever had, etc.); this damages everyone around us. It makes women feel like they HAVE to be what these women are willing to pretend to be, even though it is as far from reality as can be. It also builds the viewer up to a point of no respect for the human race, no respect for individualism and most of all, NO respect for women.

The responses in the human brain when viewing pornographic materials are far from harmless. Women grow more and more insecure and lose all self-esteem, growing into a husk of a being, clawing at the image she wants to become for society. Women have always been competitive (why, initially to mate with the best men; read: no longer necessary as we have evolved into highly aware beings), but in the past 20 years it has become a full on WAR. Girls hate prettier girls for no reason, they quarrel and fight over men, and they change their entire appearances through drastic surgeries and maintenance to live up to this current world that revolves around pornography and sexuality. This should make a respectable man or woman cringe, not become excited that they are willing to shove their genitals onto other people and make money or gain respect for it. As for the negative effects of pornography on men; there are many. Men view women as objects when women showcase themselves as objects. They start to see women as a hobby, as a body with no brain, as something to be ‘done’. Also, they become desensitized and look for harder viewing material; things that at one point were seen as disgusting and the antithesis of arousing. Go ahead and use ‘women choose to get into pornography, I’m just looking at something that already exists’ as an excuse, but realize it is illegitimate because to say something existing makes it okay is essentially to admit having the intelligence of our cavemen ancestors.

I was with someone who couldn’t masturbate without pornography. He also had never been able to achieve an orgasm through any sexual contact with another person. I realize that this is a case of addiction rather than someone casually viewing pornography, but it certainly says something about what humanity has become. Sex addiction is on the rise, women’s self esteem is at an all-time low. Together we are all passively agreeing that the destruction of intimacy and respect are okay. Hell, hookers from the 1800′s is TAME sh** compared to what we’ve become.

I’d also like to point out to all of the people here stating that they “need” visuals of people they don’t know or care about to get off…you indeed do have a problem. Humans have evolved enough to KNOW their motives sexually, which means we in fact have enough control over it to choose whether or not to view pornography. If it has become an essential piece of your life and you can’t control yourself or make educated decisions, you need help. There was a time before the pornography craze and men and women did just fine; they actually had to interact with humans face-to-face and work to make a connection. Oh, and people fantasized in their heads, which may I say is usually where fantasies should stay. If you are adult in your brain, you will realize this after an hour of searching for the negative effects of pornography. The results are in, and they aren’t pretty.

July 27, 2010 at 5:07 pm
(132) Dana says:

I found pornography in my Dad’s bedroom when I was 5 or so. I loved it – it was an escape from a harsh reality. Over the years – I continued to dive into the imagery and fantasy. The appetite for it grew and even after I was married to a beautiful woman – the urge for the hunt was still there. Not just to see, but to play on the edge.

It cost me a number of thing over the years. Today I admit my addiction and take full responsibility for it. The reason I consider it an addiction is because the need for more grew and grew – the law of diminishing returns.

The truth of the matter was that I was empty inside – deeply empty, and I filled that emptiness with more lust, pornography and sexual stimulation. Along with that I got shame, guilt and a gnawing feeling of worthlessness.

This didn’t change until I was able to talk about what I did with others who struggled in the same way. I found that the emptiness I felt was place that had a purpose. That purpose was to draw me to my Creator – yes God. I don’t expect people to get that right out of the gate, so please don’t get hung up on it – that was my journey.

I can tell you today that when I seek God and connect with what God is doing in other people, when I am honest about what I am feeling and doing – that emptiness is replaced with the connection that I so longed for and tried to find in sexual gratification – a true connection with my Creator.

I looked for Him and found Him, He said I would. And you would be amazed at what a great time I’m having with my wife these days!! An intimate and committed relationship opens doors for growth and understanding that I never got in any magazine, website or partner. It’s way more fun!!

August 6, 2010 at 2:53 pm
(133) Shannon says:

As a psychologist, teacher and single mother my response is that men have balls. They need to strap them on and stop feeling sorry for themselves. Go cry a river, build a bridge and get over it. We all have stress and women actually more so. Therefore to follow advise to relieve stress and increase stimulation , most women should have a man to listen to her, care about what she says and forfill her sexual imagination, fantasy world, &/or dreams for the pleasure of just sex-no strings. Most husbands or b/fs would not apprecitate a man like this in his wife’s -g/f’s life. Most women do not like thier husbands looking at other naked women even as an excuse for stress relief/stimulation. Suck it up, be a man and keep your hands off your winkie- maybe this is why the human race genetically has not evolved over the last 10 thousand years. Men still are thinking w/ the wrong parts. FYI- women can procreate with their egg being artificially insemin. with DNA via another egg -men had better start thinking w/ the other end.

August 22, 2010 at 11:39 pm
(134) Brittany says:

The first time I caught my boyfriend looking at pornography It was about 3 a.m. and I was sleeping in the bed only 10 feet away from him. I rose up very irate and started crying. My initial reaction was to be hurt by it. I think this was because I was so close to him and yet he didn’t even ask me for sex, so I was all hysterical because I thought I wasn’t good enough for him, which hit home due to all my ex’s cheating on me. And I honestly can say I am not ugly, nor overweight, nor old. I was 19 at the time. So I went to leave him that night because I couldn’t even stand to see him, I was that hurt. To me looking at that was saying I wasn’t attractive enough or what he wanted, because lets be real, majority of porn actresses are sexy, big chested, thin, tan, and well pretty. Well we got over that eventually and he told me he would quit looking at it. It took me awhile to gain some confidence back and see that he really did love me and was into me. Well, a few times after I caught him on it again. This last time I told him that was all I could take. It messes with me so bad and I just know I don’t want to feel that way. There are many men out there who hold some morals and values in their lives and find the natural body to be a special private thing that you share with someone you love, not just go out looking at other women to get off because they want instant gratification. To this day he has stopped looking at porn because I did find it to be a form of cheating. He was looking at another woman to get off. And if there are people who “need” that visual stimulation, or need to watch porn to get aroused, well there is something wrong. It is not a natural thing. What did people do before they had all this technology? People took the time to make love to someone they care about. Nowadays I think people find sex to take to long, and honestly are too lazy for sex, which is really sad. It is supposed to be something sacred and meaningful to you as a couple, not something just blasted from a television set or computer screen. It is sad how things are becoming, but I can just stay true to me and my happiness and not judge others for what they like to do with their time. But I will say this, I did learn that men are differently wired then most women, and porn was an “escape” or a “release”. It didn’t mean my boyfriend, now fiance thought any less of me or didn’t like my body. He tells me all the time what a woman needs to hear, and he means it. He loves my body and loves me.

September 8, 2010 at 12:26 am
(135) rick says:

can someone enlighten me to the phenomenon of squirting orgasms…I have met a girl who squirts amazingly ,and i wonder is this normal ,though i do find it a tremendous turn on ,it worries me as i need to waterproof the bed and couch…She is an amazing lover ,but wonder is this squirting a type of incontinence or just something that is peculiar to a handful of women?

September 22, 2010 at 6:57 pm
(136) Jezzy says:

We live in a world that enjoys lying to us about this stuff. Most young boys will experiment with masturbation, no matter their religious beliefs. The difference is, boys who are told this is wrong may feel very guilty about it, and it’s not encouraging to a healthy attitude about sex! Some porn is consensual, legal, ethical, and basic. Others are not, and they are certainly a different scenario and a serious problem.

When you say that porn hurts relationships, it’s not really the porn, is it? It’s the nature of the relationship. If both partners trust that porn will not be involved, and then one catches the other, it’s lying to your partner. It’s hurtful. And perhaps wrongfully, it may send the message that they “aren’t good enough”, when a lot of the time even well-sexed men (and women) will still enjoy porn, and still want to masturbate on occasion.

I dislike being deceived. I had the ill-fortune of attending church… not only that, but they showed a video on porn, as it had been a growing problem in the community. Rife with lies. Sexuality should not be a source of shame, and no amount of coaxing will lead me to believe that I am considered a man’s equal in a world where it is believed and reinforced that my genitals are a commodity. No, sir, I do NOT have to wait until marriage, wait for dinner and flowers, wait until society gives me the OK. Everyone, male or female should have control over at least their body. It’s okay.

To teach someone that they should be ashamed of that is horrid.

October 22, 2010 at 4:59 pm
(137) IDK says:

To one of the statements above about how the women in porn are airbrushed and all that to make them look so perfect that it’s unattainable by any woman, why can’t they do the same thing for the guys in the videos? I haven’t watched much porn by any means, but I have seen some, and of the ones I’ve seen, it’s really difficult to find a really attractive guy.
As for saying that men are attracted to physical appearance in a woman… sure, and women are also attracted to physical appearance in a guy. Perhaps guys need physical appearance more than women do, and if that is something in human nature, then it also stands that women would feel the need to make themselves able to compete. If they are not able to compete with the women in porn videos, then how does that make them feel? Threatened, although some women deal with it better than others. Some are confident in the fact that their partner use porn just for some stimulation and that they are still faithful to them. However, some women may start thinking that their partner would prefer it if she looked like these women in porn, and would rather the women in porn over them with regards to sexual gratification. This could arise from both insecurities and/or the guy’s behaviour with reference to it.
However, I believe that both want physical attractiveness (in a general sense of course, because quite frankly, a relationship should never be based on physical attractiveness… and, from past experience, I learned that the more you like/love someone, the more their physical appearance improves to you), but both want it in a different way. To generalize (since everyone has different preferences), guys would probably prefer the bigger boobs and wider hips… possibly for better child bearing… and women would prefer strong arms and chest, to better provide protection (which many guys translate now into money for security, which sure there are some, but there’s also men – even if it’s less – that do that same thing).

October 24, 2010 at 2:15 pm
(138) fdsajkl; says:

What if I am a skinny young attractive woman and my boyfriend still will look at porn. Even when I’ve tried to accept it, it is hard because this is the first time I’ve ever had to actually deal with this. He likes to watch group sex, which makes me uncomfortable. Not only do I know this but he has straight up told me “There is nothing wrong with me looking at 5 hot chicks doing stuff to a guy” which again puts me in a very uncomfortable situation. I just feel as if that’s what he actually wants and he doesn’t care about how I feel about it, but yet he tells me he loves me and calls me beautiful. granted he only goes to porn the second I am not interested in having sex with him, but is there something wrong here? or am I just being dumb and I need to get over it.

November 7, 2010 at 12:55 am
(139) Ann says:

I’ve been married for 20 years. My husband masturbates even though we *had* a sex life. We had oral sex before we were married. I enjoy oral sex, but knew my husband wasn’t crazy about it. After we were married, he never would have oral sex with me, although he wanted oral sex performed on him. That got old after awhile, so I hardly would perform for him any more. Then we bought computers for the house and the porn became an issue. I was lucky to have sex, 6 times a year. Now we haven’t had intercourse in 4 years, only mutual masturbation on each other, and that hasn’t happened in 19 months. He treats me great. Other woman think I’m so lucky because they think he pampers and spoils me. I have a few friends who know what’s going on because I need to talk to someone. I just don’t get it why he prefers porn to the real thing? When we do have sex, he’ll comment why don’t we do this more often? I may be 59, but I still do enjoy sex very much. He reminds me of a 14 year old boy in a mans body.

November 18, 2010 at 2:01 pm
(140) Christine says:

To the person who said Porn is not cheating your absolutely wrong, until you’ve been in a relationship with someone who has a porn addiction then you’ve never seen the devestation it can cause on a family. Porn has ruint my life, my marriage, my family, and even my children’s happiness. Porn destroys families.Period.

November 27, 2010 at 7:24 pm
(141) another voice says:

I’m 23 and I use to be one of the top girls at a strip club. C cup.. Top 3 ass.. tan.. thin.. pretty face.. great oral.. loved having sex when it was worth it.. but my partner now not only has a small and hard to please me penis but he’s the type to just cum and leave me hanging. He wouldn’t make me cum and was threatened by my vibrator which would have sped up the process so i i just stopped giving it up because I got no pleasure out of it..what about my damn release? Girls get blue balls too selfish aholes! Anyways I caught him with porn and I ended it because he had a porn star at home waiting for him and he was too damn simple minded to realize that. Moral of the story you can be a porn star and be cheated on with porn because guys are really that stupid and cocky to think they deserve it all!

December 21, 2010 at 1:19 pm
(142) Anjaana says:

Sex gives life.There is no life without sex.So wish you all happy fu*&king life.

January 3, 2011 at 5:08 am
(143) Parker says:

Phil C you are one smart dude. I get everything you are saying and agree with it, but when you say these women are just responding emotionally instead of taking it for what it is, you got to understand women respond to things emotionally instead of rationally like men do. So when women do that sometimes, you got to realize this is because it’s in their nature, just like we are very visual and rational creatures as men, women are very emotional creatures that wear their emotions on their sleeve and sometimes let emotions over rule there rational side. We are a like in many ways, but men and women still are very different in many ways also, which is why it is either a war or many compromises.

On another note. I watch porn all the time and release myself to it. I like being on my own and love my freedom, to do what I want when I want. People can say thats just me not growing up, being selfish or what not, but we all have choices in this world and my choice is to be as free as possible. You can’t judge me on my desire to be free anymore then I can judge your desire for a relationship. So is it wrong that I watch porn?? I dont think so. People will say it conditions you to treat women like objects, but thats just nonesense as I think both men and women should be equal. I dont degrade women just because I watch a porn. I do it for release, that I dont get anywhere else, since I enjoy my freedom and have no intention of settling down. Maybe some guys it does change their view of women and can be harmful, but to say that everyone who watches porn becomes a woman hating/degrading person is just stupid. You just have to realize its just porn and take it for what it is. If people can’t do that, then thats on them but dont blame porn.

January 4, 2011 at 5:24 am
(144) Kats_Q says:

My name is Kats and I am 26 years old. I have watched porn since I was 12 years old. I acknowledge that porn does something to the psyche. When I read “Pornified: How Pornography Is Damaging Our Lives, Our Relationships, and Our Families”, an essay written by Pamela Paul, it helped me gain a wider perspective. I still watch porn and masturbate regularly.

That being said, I have read comments from PhilC and many other anecdotes that all claim contrasting things. I think the real solution is through discussion and listening to the opposing point of view without preconceived notions. Don’t guard and defend your porn. Don’t attack porn and take it personally. Know your limits. Know who you are and who you are with and be comfortable with it and don’t compromise. If you love porn, don’t be with someone who indicates that it is offensive. I feel like I am a person who feels both sides of the story and I can mediate for both parties:

January 4, 2011 at 5:33 am
(145) Kats_Q says:

Is porn cheating/betrayal?
If you are the type of person who doesn’t enjoy/get-off/understand porn, then you will misunderstand porn use. I have had a boyfriend who watched porn LESS than me, and yet I still felt betrayed when HE watched it, even though I also secretly did. Why? Because of the insecurities within myself that I hadn’t come to terms with and were denying. Also, the relationship was riddled with jealousies, so porn was just a way to vent and fight about it. However, as a porn user, I also feel that porn is very addicting indeed, and my sexual tastes have gotten more hardcore. My boyfriend slaps my ass and chokes me a little because I like it. Do I think he degrades me? No, because he and I are equals on a mental level and I am an equalist. I pay for my own stuff, but I also appreciate when he pays for me. I don’t believe that sex is for men. I don’t believe that hardcore sex is for men. Most feminist will frown and say I am objectifying myself, but I know that if I am, it’s only because others see it that way. I may get cum all over me, but I still have my dignity as an equal because in order for all that porn stuff to be okay, there needs to be security and equality in the relationship.

January 4, 2011 at 5:34 am
(146) Kats_Q says:

Do men enjoy porn more than women because of certain qualities that are inherently different?
I don’t think this is a woman/man thing, and if it is, the line is definitely blurred. I am a female who grew up with a lot of guys, hang out with a lot of guys and have tried very hard to defy stereotypes about what it means to be a woman. I burp and fart in public, I am very openly sexual and I am very assertive and will challenge men. In my youth, I have joined the auto mechanics class to prove I have balls. I arm wrestle and tackle guys even now, just for play. I have challenged men’s attitude about women, from the objectifiers to the traditionalists. I understand that this is atypical behaviour, and that most women are not like that, BUT it also proves that it’s all about the kind of person you are to really appreciate porn. If you’re open, have an addictive personality and horny then I think that as a girl or guy you would be inclined to watch porn. Not to mention that there are some sweet and innocent looking girls that look at softcore porn, or some kind of erotica. I used to read harlequin novels. Those things are porn for women, so don’t think they don’t like fantasy and sex– they just like it in a different context.

January 4, 2011 at 5:35 am
(147) Kats_Q says:

Porn and/or the real world
I think that this last topic is the real debate. I can attest that porn changes you and the way you think. I once had a boyfriend who I later on became friends with. He and I didn’t have sex when we were together. Later on, we met up again. I gave him a blowjob but he couldn’t cum after what must have been half an hour. He confessed that he has been watching an excessive amount of porn and he isn’t used to another person’s stimulation other than his own. I can also attest to this because I can’t have a clitoral orgasm when someone else is doing it because it’s what I use to watch porn with. The vaginal orgasm is strictly for sex with my partner and I have no problem with it. Thankfully, I can separate the two. There are a lot of men who suffer the same problem as my ex-bf. They are addicted to porn and are accustomed to their own hands. It leads to problems with intimacy and sexual pressure. But by the time the symptoms of the addiction is apparent, he can hardly help himself and will do anything to keep the relationship and the habit until he gets caught again. When that happens, the problem transcends the porn. The man can claim that porn has little to do with their issues. He may be right, but it certainly originated from it and the origin holds the root of the issue.

As for me, I am careful. Porn has sexually liberated me, but I have a responsibility to ensure that I don’t fall into problems with intimacy.

As a woman, I am oversexed by standard. I am still on the fence if porn is bad for me. When I express my sexuality openly, I am under scrutiny of women who misunderstand and judge me wrongly. I am also under scrutiny of men who also misunderstand and think that I am a slut who can be objectified.

It’s a tough balance. Where do I draw the line between being a sexual revolutionist and being a sex-starved pornbot?

January 4, 2011 at 5:55 am
(148) Kats_Q says:

Sexual abuse and harassment due to porn use

This is also a very important issue I would like to briefly address.

I think that this is a valid argument of a person who is anti-porn. At the same time, I would like to counter-argue that not all porn users are women abusers. If porn users are so much more likely to sexually harass women, then it is a factor and not the cause. This is not to say we should take porn very lightly. In fact, we should have a responsibility to ourselves to know when our porn use is hurting someone else. If I watch porn, then so be it. If I watch porn and find the biggest c0ck out there who will f*ck me and not give a sh*t about me, that is a problem because I am hurting myself. If I watch porn and think it’s okay to become a sexual predator, then maybe I have an issue that is being exacerbated by porn use but is not caused by it. In that case, I should seek help.

This is a very real issue that is being blamed on the surface and the most apparent: pornography. I think the issue of violence against women have a lot more to do with conventions (in some countries, it’s acceptable to beat/kill your wife for instance, whether or not he saw snuff films), traditions (stoning a woman to death because of adultery vs. polygamist traditions) and just plain old sexual repression and gender inequality (a sex count of 60 people can mean very different things if you’re a man or a woman).

January 4, 2011 at 6:19 am
(149) Mr. Fun says:

Kats_Q,

Whoah, that was an essay! Your comments (144-148) make a lot of sense though. I’m glad there are some people out there who look at both sides of the story.

Things are not black and white, I agree with you 100%. I think you wrote a better article than the guy who wrote for this site!

January 20, 2011 at 10:34 am
(150) xp33ale says:

i hear guys talk about no sex life with their wives all the time. im sure there are reasons. i, myself can’t get enough of that great feeling! problem is,my boyfriend and i rarely see much of eachother cuz of work schedules. i’ve woken him up few times to play! im one that wants it AT LEAST twice a day,that just doesnt happen. few times a wk maybe. i resort to toys and guys online stripping. so guys aren’t the only ones that are sex deprived! !

January 25, 2011 at 4:29 pm
(151) Sad in nc says:

I am 44, attractive… he is 53, a little heavy, but very attractive.. When we got together, he sd he was not into porn. about 2 weeks later, he asked me about our relationship, he sd he was in this for long term, how did i feel about that? I liked the idea, he is Mr. Perfect…
about 3 months later, I was sleeping it was 2:00 am, and he was up on the computer, he had a naked woman pulled, and going to all of her parts, to enlarge them… boy was I shocked…
I cauled back to bed so disappointed, and confused, when he did come to bed, I got up and wrote him a long email…
He said he was checking it out some guys from work want him to make some porn cd’s…he sd he could getr $10 each…I said we dont need the $$, and i dont want you to do that.
Well its only gotten worste over the last 18 months..he will do oral, but not intercourse..(never 1 time)…Now i see the cialis is disapearing…he isnt using it on me.
Any sugestions/ or words of advise?

Thank you

February 1, 2011 at 10:42 pm
(152) Reality says:

What does Recorded human history represent, at least 10,000 years? Except for roughly the last 40 years PORN did simply not exist! Yet somehow humanity functioned and survived without it and speculatively much better. We now live in a society in the western world that is literally sexually obsessed like never ever before. Are women so oblivious they don’t know why?

Around the 1960′s an explosion of visual sexual imagery began and has increased in volume and explicitly with every passing decade. Porn is now a $100 BILLION industry. While the case can easily be made that women are harmed more men are also harmed and at the very least carry the burden of sexual obsession that plaques so many men.

WOMAN DID THIS.

No of course men are not innocent but the fact of the matter is women are the subject of the vast majority of porn, net men. If women did not participate in porn there simply wouldn’t be any and feminism is exactly why they have. Doubt it? Search wikipedia or online for the “feminist sex wars” and find out who won… For money, power, glamour, fame many women have sold their souls and take no accountability for objectifying their gender. And women who have never participated in porn are so brainwashed by feminism they blame the problem exclusively on men.

February 8, 2011 at 12:08 am
(153) smithy says:

it does stimulate my man I dont thik, as he still dont want me… and if he does want me its just oral sex he wants..we have been together for 18 months, and have NEVER once had intercourse..is there anyone out there in my shoes????

February 20, 2011 at 1:10 am
(154) seriously... says:

well I was doing a search on google hoping to get some male insight into this question. I honestly don’t get it.
when men say it’s cause their woman has let themselves go, I call bull. when I was young and pretty darn perfect I found my husband secretly hiding and looking at porn. When men say it’s because their woman won’t do it enough. He never asked. When men say woman won’t do what a man wants/or try to please him over her, well that goes both ways. my man didn’t bother learning how to please me, while I spent countless hours learning what made him happy. after a while, I admit, I stopped trying. as I said, it goes both ways, and if it doesn’t who’s gonna keep doing it?

March 12, 2011 at 8:46 am
(155) pennyf says:

to Aeonflux,good on you for saying a ‘post’ and putting your thoughts into it,great reading.
As for Phil C you are a deadset nutter.Your posts are just mimsical rubbish.As a social worker and relationship counsellor you are so off mark it is sickening.
You are saying all men like porn and the porn stars.Do you even realise how many men compain against pornography and the messages that it sends to women and young girls.Do you know how many men actually love big beautiful women.You winge about feminists speaking for all women,but you say you speak for all men but you don’t even know all men.Not all men have insatiable sex drives,or want to watch porn,some might.As long as you’re honest with your partner,they can choose if they wish to pursue the relationship or not.
You say you don’t have a weight issue,but every post you discuss weight,thank God you don’t work for Weight Watchers you have no sense of compassion or even a cm of a brain for that matter.Do you know one of the head directors against girls being trafficked in the sex industry is a man.And he compains against pornography.The family groups in USA are mainly run by men who are against pornography and how it dehumanises women.So are you going to tell these men to their face they love porn.you are so stupid where is common sense.there are men that are overweight too,should they not have the right to find themself a nice girl.my friend has a lovely husband who is quite overweight big deal,she loves him for who he is.there is so many men with large women and love them for who they are.you are too stereotyping in your views but can’t stand it when someone tells you so.Everyone is different,both male and female.everyone finds things different,some things may turn them off some things they may like.i wonder if you have problems with your own sexuality as your comments are ridiculous.

April 7, 2011 at 12:35 am
(156) zaid says:

any one who looks at porn simply dont love there companion and also forgets the vows they have made to love respect etc

April 22, 2011 at 6:30 pm
(157) cams says:

It’s the respect that’s very important but viewing porn sites sometimes mean that they want to try other position though and have more skills in bed.

April 23, 2011 at 9:55 pm
(158) Dave says:

Here’s a question: why are women who go to strip clubs unable to control themselves from groping and sometimes felating male strippers whereas men in strip clubs are expected and able to behave themselves? Women are less visual, really? Why do so many of them flip out then when they see a guy with ‘six pack’ abs, whereas a man who sees a woman with large breasts might be attracted but is more able to control himself and not grope the woman unlike so many women around guys with abs? Why is it okay for women to pinch and grab my ass when I’m out but it’s not okay for me to do it, and would be considered far more serious if I did it to a woman who didn’t like it and felt violated than if I feel that way when a woman does it to me? The feminist conception of the woman as a basically a non-sexual creature who’s a perpetual rape victim is a joke. Many women nowadays are much bigger pigs than men, and get away with far worse behavior.

As far as why do people watch pornography, obviously for these people the fantasy world is more satisfying than the reality they’re dealing with. If it were reversed all the misandristic feminist women would probably be saying ‘it’s cause men only care about their own pleasure in bed and women are left unsatisfied’ or something like that. The fault of the so-called porn addict is not that they watch porn but that they haven’t created the conditions in their lives that would make their love and sex lives superior for them than the experience of masturbating to porn. In a lot of cases this would probably involve leaving the woman they’re with who might be frigid, might not like sex, might have been indoctrinated that sex is dirty and what not by religion or feminism, etc. Right off the bat any woman who pops off about ‘men are pigs’ blah blah blah is instantly unf***able to any guy with standards and thus responsible for their own plight that they endlessly complain about.

May 10, 2011 at 8:04 pm
(159) Annie says:

Why do articles like this always end up with something derogatory being said between the sexes?
I am trying to understand men’s obsession with porn – and I do believe what was written in the article about a purely physical need to ejaculate. My husband has tried to explain how he feels and is the first man in my life to mention that it can actually hurt if he doesn’t.
I know that men are visually stimulated and that is just the way it is – how they are ‘made’.
My issue with porn and the reason why it makes me feel uncomfortable is that so much of it is actually degrading to women. Porn has always been around but because of the internet it is much more accessible. My concern is that boys growing up are bombarded with these images and so believe that these are realistic and that this is the way to view women. I read an article where teenage boys were shown pictures of natural women and they were disgusted by them because these women actually had pubic hair!
Concerns are also in place for girls growing up. They are subject to images as well, that women are merely sexual beings. For instance – most of the successful female music artists cannot seem to make a video without dressing and dancing provocatively Hence so many young women are showing more flesh and putting themselves under so much pressure to have the ‘ideal’ bodyshape.
None of this is beneficial to girls or boys.
Whatever happened to the concept of respect and ‘it’s what is underneath that counts’? What is truly beautiful about a person (male or female) is their personality and how they treat fellow human beings.
We can really do without the presumption from some men that when a woman speaks of her opinion she is a feminist. How often is the word chauvinistic used? Understanding of the differences between the sexes is needed from both sides – rather than both men and women shouting over one another to be heard, yet not truly listening.

May 26, 2011 at 11:35 am
(160) melody says:

I am a married woman with an extremely high iq fabulous career and a husband that I have been with since I was 14. I am now 42 and I find that it took me many many years to learn to understand men. I has been I were on the brink of separation when I had a nervous breakdown and I realize that I was treating him very badly. I let him do whatever he wants on the computer he has always been doing it anyway. he has always shared porn magazines in porn movies with me, and I enjoy him very much. I will respect him more than ever. I make sure now that I look really hot for him and that I just fufill his needs. I don’t argue with him anymore I do what he says and he treats me better than ever. I finally quit competing with him and now I submit totally to him. we are so happy so in love and the sex is awesome. too bad it took me 30 years to figure this out .

June 8, 2011 at 11:22 am
(161) Stacy says:

Okay so I hear all the “reasons” why men look at porn. How many of those men would REALLY be okay if the shoe were on the other foot, and the wife rejects YOU and fulfills her own needs with porn? At first you might think wow alright! Now I can look too. But after a while, what would be the need to even be togther? If you nearly quit having sex with each other, why stay together? You’re little more than roomates at that point. I love sex and work out daily and am reasonable attractive, and would have sex with my husband any time. I wear the type of sexy outfits that he prefers and try everything I can think of to keep it spicey, but my hubby would rather have porn. I’ve never allowed myself to fantasize about another person than my man in 8 years of marriage. I dont go there because I know if I did, my husband would start to look less attractive to me the more I fantasized about someone else. I want my attraction to my husband to last so I keep my thoughts only for him. He said he was doing the same, and when I found out he wasnt I felt destroyed inside because I finally figured out why he kept telling me he just wasnt that into sex anymore. He just wasnt that into it with me. Now when we have sex, I almost always wonder who he is really thinking about when Im pleasuring him, and sometimes he just has the attitude of getting it over with. I thought I was enough for him, and he was enough for me. knowing that Im not visually enough for him has made me feel like he is emotionally not enough for me.

June 8, 2011 at 11:23 am
(162) Stacy says:

A real man should see the challenge in keeping a long relationship interesting, and should value his wifes feeling enough to control where he directs his thoughts. YOu are the captain of the ship in terms of where your mind travels. Stop blaming it on biology. Just because you have a gun doesnt mean you have to shoot it. You are men, and you have full ability to control yourself. If you disagree with me, I challenge you to test my theory. Do not allow yourself to think about or look at women other than your spouse. Everytime your thoughts drift in that direction, turn the wheel in another direction. Do this for six weeks and see if your wife doesnt suddenly look more appealing.
Why do you think Pompei got destroyed by that volcano? Perhaps a higher power got a little fed up with some letcherous society….;}

June 27, 2011 at 10:16 am
(163) Erin says:

There are certain things both men and women can do that make the other sex feel rejected. What isn’t more of a rejection of everything a real woman is when pitted against a million different options of younger, firmer, better bodied, more sexually adverterous, just-need-to-look-at-her-to-make-her-orgasm women. Women understand that men are visual. And that visualness can be such a wonderfully positive thing when men choose to use it for good, not evil. Instead of using the whole “I’m visual” to defend supporting degrading and humilating material toward women, why don’t more husbands and boyfriends try to redirect their attention to celebrate the beauty and sexuality they have in their partners already? Being
visual” shouldn’t become an excuse to use women for your own self pleasure. Understanding that men are visual and that there are both positive and negative ways that visualness can be applied is key. Men can turn their visualness into something positive for their partners. But telling your wife that you can’t help but like the 18 year old girl in porn and expecting her to be all smiles and warm hugs is boarderline cruel. And if you are honest with yourself, selfish. …

June 27, 2011 at 10:17 am
(164) Erin says:

comments continued…

If women were the ones instead sitting infront of the computer and masturbating to images and videos of men being used, not for their bodies (as many men wish women would use htem for), but for their money, then kicking them out; I think we would see a rise of men coming to understand why it doesn’t feel good to be a woman in this world with so many men turning to porn to use women in the most disgusting ways. If women had videos and media that called men ALL kinds of names, just as porn does to women, and women were getting enjoyment from men being degraded like that, I don’t think men would feel good about the women in their lives at all. But everyday women are expected to buy into their own degradement with happy smiles and are expected to think the best of their own husbands and boyfriends even when these husbands and boyfriends are enjoying material that is really quite misognistic toward women. Why is that?

Porn has turned the concept of being “visual” for men into something that means that women must be used and thrown out and called names and slapped around the entire time. I think men are better then that. I think men can turn their visualness to a positive, not the negative that it’s turned into regarding the porn industry.

June 27, 2011 at 10:18 am
(165) Erin says:

Comments continued again..

Lastly, one poster did touch on something no man brought up. Just how darn abusive porn is toward women. Why would any man want to stand up for that? I believe men do love women deeply. Find them sexy and beautiful. And that being the case, I can never figure out why most porn is about phyiscally, mentally and emotionally and verbally abusing women. Just think about that the next time you turn on a porn video. Think about the title of hte movie, think about the acts being done to the woman in it, think about how the man is treating that women. These are not pretty images. These are not pretty reflections of masculinity or femininity. Infact, if we went by porn, I could safely say that most men hate women as people but like them as holes only. And most women apparently LOVE being debased an abused to make a man happy.

I know there are many men reading this right now that enjoy porn. I know there are many men reading this right now that know I am right. And many of you are the same men that enjoy porn. Ask yourselves why that is. Ask yourselves what that says about how men really feel and view women.

Thanks.

July 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm
(166) Charley says:

I actually saved a copy of the entire article the first time you published it. Then I forwarded it to all the men who (used to) send porn to my husband by email almost on a daily basis — along with my own commentary. Nobody sends porn to my husband any more (unless it’s me).

I wanted to know why they thought that my husband could not find internet porn on his own initiative, and what the need was for them to share it with him. I pointed out that they should not send anything to him that they would not want me to open in our USPS mail or that they didn’t want me to see– if for no other reason than to respect me and my new marriage.

While I received an apology from one guy, I didn’t hear from the others. But my husband “testifies” that while he never asked for them to send him the porn, he never discouraged it either — until he knew how upset it made me. The fact is that I don’t care if he ventures to watch porn on his own initiative. It disturbs me, though, to have other men send him the stuff and continually ask him to go to strip clubs and Vegas with them. This is not something I want in my life as my first marriage was a fiasco and this little scenario ended with me kicking my husband out for the night. That ended the “friend” problem (and the friends trying to get my husband out of the house to enjoy real women with them).

Alas, the porn in my eyes was never a problem as I admit to enjoying a little from time to time myself and with my husband. Men are right in that it is and can be a great visual stimulus. Women are at least curious. There might be a place for it in many relationships; it all depends on the utmost respect and sensitivity for your partner’s feelings and comfort levels, I suppose.

I am still curious to know what the appeal is for guys to share porn via the internet with their friends.

If I ever find out, I’ll let you know!

August 26, 2011 at 4:40 pm
(167) Paul says:

Porn is fantasy. I does have pleasure attached, however, it’s also distructive. I’m confident that the majority of readers will strongly disagree with that statement, however, I stick with it. Basically it’s directing sexual energy to static images. I’m not suggesting it would be easy to contain most of this energy, however, assuming anyone is willing to try they will find resourceful ways to express it with their companions. For example if you and your companion go the the store and the question is what would you like to eat and you can’t answer then you are simply not hungry enough. Get hungry and you will find many things you would like to eat. Now considering the problem your mate doesn’t want or appreciate sex then you are with the wrong person. I’m extremely confident that women know that the men they marry have sex drives and they no doubt know the intensity (be it high or low). If they have no sex drive and marry someone who has a high sex drive then in essence you have been defrauded. What’s the point? Focus on you companion and let them have the benefit of all you sexual energy……..don’t water it down with porn. Porn ultimated desensitizes you and addicts you.

September 3, 2011 at 3:53 pm
(168) dotherumba says:

I liked what Jim had to say. If a couple has adjusted to each others sexual needs, and porn offers assistance and pleasure to one or both, well, I say, what ever works! As a woman I enjoy porn from time to time, but, not all men and women are painted with the same brush! In matters of sex and pleasure, I would think if you love your partner, and you are respectful and concerned for their pleasure…anything goes! BTW, for the record, both men and women should take care of their appearance and stay attractive for each other.

September 19, 2011 at 10:13 pm
(169) babyblue says:

Hello everyone,

I know this is quite late, but I though I’d share a thing or two.

LADIES: I recently experienced something with my bf re porn. I basically discovered he watches it…I know, I know, I’m pretty naive and I’m well in my 20′s as well… but in any case, I was so shocked and gutted about it at first – it was pretty bad! So I understand why you ladies may feel insecure and worried.

PhilC THANK you for the amazing insight. Ladies, please read what PhilC has been writing instead of being so angry about it… I let my anger consume me for about a month, until I realised I was pushing my bf away. You don’t want to do that…especially if you love the bloke.

So here’s the deal:

Just because your bf watches porn, doesn’t mean he doesn’t worship the ground you walk on NOR does it mean he would choose anybody over you… UNLESS he’s at it all the time, and it is disrupting (and i mean REALLY disrupting) the relationship (catching him doing it when u rejected him the night before AND you were out of the house all day DOESN’T count :-) )

September 19, 2011 at 10:13 pm
(170) babyblue says:

Guys have more drive for sex than women. Sorry. It is a fact. Now from what I understood, men use porn to speed up the masturbating process and make it more fun/exciting. SO WHAT? Women use vibrators, or pressure from a shower head, or their imagination… It’s really all the same… And yes the women ARE NOT who they’re necessarily fantasising about, it is the ACT itself.. it arouses them and helps them get off. No biggie and nothing to be worried about.

A lot of times, men use porn to get them in the mood – and then they fantasise about their wife/gf… either way – what difference does it REALLY make to us? We will never be in their heads, and neither will they! You’ve gotta TRUST ladies. I learned the hard way – so please don’t make the same mistake I did.

Oh and the second an honest man feels his woman doesn’t trust him, he will be distant and detached (creating further obsession in the woman’s mind about porn -ITS A VICIOUS CYCLE, dont get into it!!)

I say, let your man have his fun while watching porn, let him live in his little fantasy for a bit once a while..it’s healthy! give him that! and the more you show him trust, the more he’s going to want you! If he loves you and is there for you and would do anything for you – then you really have nothing to be complaining about.

September 19, 2011 at 10:16 pm
(171) babyblue says:

Another point, the more you show him you are stressed about the whole thing – the more he will watch it… it’s interesting but men have a way of running away from a problem instead of facing it… so don’t make him feel “guilty” or “bad” about it cause then he will be demotivated to be with you, and he will lose his self-esteem!! And he won’t feel confident to take you to bed with him…

Whatever happens in a relationship is BOTH parties’ responsibility. So take matters in your hands and ACCEPT it.

Think about it, if you knew your bf loved and adored you, and he knew you were being upset by him watching porn, yet he still looked at porn on occasion, then maybe you need to think about WHY? He obviously doesn’t want to purposely hurt you – so maybe it IS his way of keeping his mind occupied/satisfied.

So what if he wants variety? Dont we all?? How many times do women secretly analyse another man they come across and wonder if he would be a better match? If anything women are more sneaky!! Men watching porn means jack. Really, we shouldn’t overestimate a man’s intentions. They are pretty simple. And it really is about looking at a hot body performing hot sex while letting their imagination go for a while :-)

And so what if he fantasises about another woman from time to time? Until he cheats on you, ignores you, mistreats you, disrespects you – I really don’t see the big fuss.

I hope this helps all the women who are experiencing what I am slowly recovering from!!

September 20, 2011 at 4:33 pm
(172) Claudia says:

What exactly is natural about pornography? My fear is the consequences of what the sex industry is doing to human relationships. The availability and depravity that comes with this industry is absolutely devastating to authentic relationships. What is natural about a man or women sitting around looking at hundreds, maybe thousands of people engaging in the most intimate acts known to mankind?
Some of my girlfriends are fine with their boyfriends and husbands looking at porn because they really love to see other men too. Some accept it because they have been taught over the years that a certain amount of unfaithfulness is acceptable. A few of my friends are not ok with it, why be faithful to a man that is unfaithful to you? The whole look but not touch excuse seems invalid, the looking is way beyond looking. Why do women that take good care of their bodies need to be brought down to the same level as prostitutes by the men they love?
This society is just so superficial. There is nothing at all natural about the pornography industry. It robs women of their sexuality and before you know it will also rob men of theirs. In 10-20 years it will be the norm for women to enjoy the “fruits” of prostitution behind their husband’s backs. Men will know what it feels like to compete visually with a variety of other men for their wives and girlfriends affections.
There is such a thing as being desensitized, which is what is happening in our society. The people in the pornography business have almost always been molested or raped. The abuse that they have already suffered causes them to punish their bodies more. People that indulge in the business are indulging in other people’s pain for their own pleasure. That is a fact; regardless of your personal opinions about modern pornography the people performing the acts are almost certainly lost, desperate and void of true human affection.

September 21, 2011 at 3:22 am
(173) babyblue says:

CLaudia, I agree with everything you have written… I personally dont appreciate pornography one bit! I find it CAN be very damaging…YET we need to realise that it’s accessible, in abundance and very popular…So whether we like it or not, men are going to look at porn! Plus it was created for a reason… You need to keep that in mind! I don’t believe it could have become so popular unless it was somewhat in demand.. I think because it is still relatively new to the world, it is still looked at as foreign… I mean – would you have a problem with a man looking at a picture of a sexy woman instead? It is almost exactly the same thing! And men have been doing that for a while… It is THEIR way of getting off…

Now I hope you agree that there is nothing wrong with masturbation? So if he’s going to masturbate anyway, he is bound to be thinking about something sexual/fantastical… I would rather he SEES some random stranger on the screen, than think about REAL references, such as his ex-gf’s… make sense? Now you’re probably thinking – why can’t he think of me and ONLY me? Well the answer to that is, men are wired differently, and men take notice to all the sexy/attractive women they meet (even if they have no interest in getting to know them) so these images are floating in their minds! I don’t know if I’m making myself very clear, and it probably sounds really horrible to most women, because we are so different and can’t relate! But sometimes in life, you’ve gotta just live and let live.

I am certain that few men become properly addicted to porn. If the guy is aware of himself and can truly appreciate the difference between fantasy and reality, then there is nothing wrong with it.. It is HIS way… And soooo many guys do it! So perhaps the problem is with us women accepting that?

September 21, 2011 at 3:28 am
(174) babyblue says:
September 21, 2011 at 12:03 pm
(175) SomeStrangeNerdType says:

People don’t search enough.

There is a kind of porn out there for nearly everyone as long as it’s legal of course. There is also what is classed as ‘female friendly’ porn.
When people say “concentrate your sexual energy on your partner” well that’s all well and good but it’d only work if say while dating you both I dunno made a time table for each other, to show how often you thought about sex and needed that release.
Actually for any future dates I may have I think I’ll write up a questionnaire of sorts, see where they put themselves on the sex drive scale and so on if it’s not a match with me then I guess we’d just not be compatible. Then of course if I do get in a relationship and it’s long lasting, peoples sex drives change so I guess we’d have to do monthly questionnaires just to make sure we’re still compatible….
http://www.messengerfreak.com/emoticons/funny/2514.gif “This relationships too complicated and I’ve got blue balls!”
Okay so actually a man can go without that er…release because the wet dreams he has a night will ensure that he doesn’t get filled up with semen. But if a man has some sexual energy going on and he’s next to his woman or man and their partner just doesn’t have any interest in that particular moment it can be a bit too intense for a man to just sit there and go “Oh all right.” *rolls over and goes to sleep* not for all men perhaps but damn it when a man got blue balls he got blue balls!

September 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm
(176) SomeStrangeNerdType says:

I’d like to add to that that both men and women watch porn, though I generalised in my post mainly talking about men.
Porn can be addictive, so can sex it self. Porn addicts. Sex addicts. So I guess maybe no one should have sex either, you know just in case?
As man I can honestly that when I do happen to view porn I’m not actually wanting to be with that woman in the picture of video. I’m simply using it as a visual aid to help my brain imagine the details I need to imagine when I don’t have a woman with me instead. I must admit I use porn as a last resort in most cases as in I try to use my imagination and only my imagination sometimes it just helps to aid me. I’m not emotionally in anyway wishing I was with the woman on the screen and normally I’m not even sexually wanting her personally on the screen. Like I said it’s about details. I know that may sound like women’s body parts are just objects to use but I…well don’t women use toys that are shaped like mens parts which could also suggest that mens parts are seen as sexual objects…

Here is an interesting thing though. Notice how if a man got a sex toy he’s seen as a perv at least from what I’ve heard people say, yet women use all sorts of toys and no one really thinks anything of it…What do they sometimes get called? Oh yes sex aids. Please note my reference to the word ‘aid’ earlier.

September 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm
(177) kind of confused says:

What if you are pretty (you get asked out many times), nice figure (get complimented), slim weight bout 120 lbs 5 4 height and have everything else…but you still wake up on a seeing your bf watching porn and you know…
And you have always give it to him, strip for him and play for him and everything…what is the problem there…
I get really bothered? As if I do not satisfy him? As if i am not pretty enough? I always wonder what if he catches me doing the same thing , would he get mad… of course! Who wants to see their girl looking at other men? No One!
I am so confused?

September 30, 2011 at 11:03 pm
(178) Kelly says:

I am hurt and offended. I am tired of men defending their desire and pleasure out of disrespecting and objectifying women. Porn says one thing and one thing only about women. “Women are here for your sexual pleasure and they have nothing else to offer men.” This is why you often hear men then say “Women are good for only one thing…” Why is it that men so seldom if ever realize that women have a multitude of qualities and abilities and we could benefit them in many ways and we are not just good for one thing. When you are in a relationship with a woman and you watch this you are in fact saying to the woman “YOU ARE NOT ENOUGH FOR ME, i NEED MORE THAN YOU” Sorry if men were objectified and disrespected in this way as much as women are they wouldn’t be so in agreement and defense about finding enjoyment only in the means of disrespecting and objectifying women. Lets face it these women don’t respect themselves. They do not realize they have more to offer. Even worse they do not care nor realize that when they do these things they are making a statement about ALL WOMEN. They are in agreement with men that “Women are good for one thing they have no other purpose and should only be played with and discarded.

November 24, 2011 at 7:21 pm
(179) a woman says:

Ok. I’ve read some of the comments. I’m not an American, I’m Romanian and I’m mentioning this because in my country the social differences between men and women are even greater. I’m a woman and I watch porn. I simply like to watch it. Don’t know way. I have a boyfriend and I love him. He’s my first guy. So this is not something related to not having a healthy relationship or to being some kind of nymphoman. As the first comment puts it, it’s an additional stimulation that I like to have when I’m alone and I’m in the mood for sex. He knows I watch porn, and I know he doest it to. It’s ok with him and it’s ok with me. The only thing I’m unconfortable with is him watching only naiked women. And he doesn’t let me watch olny naked men either. For some reason it seams like cheatting for both of us. So the idea is to focus mainly on the intercouse.Someone sayed women accept it because they like to see men to. I don’t believe this is the case. I don’t like to watch men, but the act. There’s a difference. That’s why my boyfried would be mad if I looked at men alone. He knows there’s a difference. What I am trying to say is that all this is brought up by society alone. I’m a women and I like watching porn to.I moustly like vaginal intercourse. Anal and oral ( cunniligulus as well) seem groas. It is true porn is oriented differently. Porn for women focus more on forplay and carresing during the act itself.

November 24, 2011 at 7:57 pm
(180) a woman says:

At the same time, the gros stuff in porn boder me. That I feel is quite humiliating and I don’t like it if sexual parteners are not portrayed on equal levels. I do sympathize with the woman that comments about the ,,objectifying” of women…but when I look at porn I am interested only in sex. So I , as a woman, objectify men as well. It’s just that I’m not looking at the man and imagining myself having sex with him, it just stimulates me and I like it . From my point of view, I wish it didn’t exist because there are very grous things portrayed in some films, things I think are not really ok for women. But I don’t think my boyfriend expects me to do what those women do. I’ve talked with him, just out of curiosity. The answer was he knew the difference between reality and film. The same goes for me. I can fantasies about certain thinghs, but it doesn’t mean I will do them.
I and my boyfriend have different skedules.. So, I prefer to watch porn and masturbate than to think of sex all day.
Again, I’m not a sex addict. I don’t need it more than normal, that is to say a couple of times per week , maybe lesser at other times. I ‘ve never had anyone else than him and I was a virgin till the age of 22. And nor do I feel the need to cheat on him.
A mature way of thinking is this: if those women are ok whith it, way should it be my problem? people can do whatever they like, as long as it is ok with their partners.
for Kelly: In porn, men are often portrayed giving women cunnilingulus, but I wouldn’t leave my boyfriend or want him less just because he doesn’t do that to me or because he doesn’t look like a porn star.

Another aspect: My boyfriend is pretty conservative. He was a virgin when I met him and he told me it would have bodered him if a wasn’t one as well. But he’s not bodered by the fact that I like to watch porn, as long as I don’t watch men masturbatting alone or look at pictures with naked men. I think that sayes something.

January 18, 2012 at 6:46 am
(181) Anonymous girl says:

I’m a 20 year old girl with a boyfriend. We’re very happy together in general. He has stated he watched it when he was single (fair enough) and once he watched it when I was away. Now he knows I hate it, he doesn’t watch it. I do not tolerate porn.

I have been told I am beautiful by many people. I’m slim and curvy and I have a very attractive face. My point for the mini brag is to say I should be enough. If I’m not? The boy can get out of my bed, open his laptop, and have a vacuous sexual session with a pornstar and his hand.

A guy who is TURNED ON by another woman’s degradation is a guy I look past. However, I realize that men are prone to looking at an attractive babe on the street. That’s okay, I make a point to look at attractive men on the street too.

I think that some women feel like they have to put up with porn. When I am old, I may re-evaluate my position or choose to be without a man. But for now, take me or leave it because I’m attractive enough to have options.

Men, you have to realize that for some women, porn and their boyfriends/husbands relationship with it is quite heartbreaking.

Ladies, if you are one such woman who finds porn heartbreaking… Cut yourself off from it, and a guy who decides porn has to be in his life.

Who knows, you might be lucky enough to find a guy who loves you and decides you are more important than wanking off to a stranger. I have and I am sure as hell glad I created my own standards.

PS – for the cynical blokes who think my bf is lying? I secretly check his internet history.

January 23, 2012 at 2:35 pm
(182) rappdyy says:

I was recently involved with a man heavily into porn. He often used his porn experiences as scripts for us, and when he did he seemed disengaged from me and what we were doing and lost in his own world-from calling me a “dirty slut” and other names, to spanking me and asking repeatedly for anal he would try to recreate his favorites. I found it disturbing and we’re no longer together.

February 6, 2012 at 10:32 am
(183) in dilemma says:

I’ve been reading everybodies comments on this site and want to say thank you for the honesty.
however, I have a different problem and would love some insight particularly from the male perspective.I just want to know what is normal….
my husband and i have been together for 25 years.sexually I was satisfied ..I guess? truth is I would have liked sex 3-4 times a week as a minimum but he was always tired , so I settled for when ever I could get it. usually at his discretion and usually in the morning on Saturday or Sunday . really boring but these were his terms not mine.
Recently I discovered that he has been a regular on porn sites for the last 4-5 years ( that I know of ) and the part that I find disturbing is that he has been on ‘young teen anal sites’ I don’t know what has disturbed me more the fact that he has an anal sex fetish, or that the girls are teens or that he, needed to type in the word ‘young’ and some of those girls looked really really young.
when I confronted him he said this is normal every man visits these sites and that I am over reacting !….
I don’t think this is normal, I don’t think I am a prude, I love sex and miss it, I feel deprived from having it because I just can’t get those images out of my head. I feel disturbed by what I saw and desperately want to know if what I’m experiencing, is an over reaction to what the rest of the worlds has always known or is this a problem unique to a disturbed mind.
Men out there please set me straight I need honest even brutel truth.
is fantasizing about anal normal?
is a 44 yr old man fantasizing about “young teens” normal
is keeping this secret from me for the last 5 ??? years normal in a marriage?
Am I being too prudish in a world that has been sexually liberated?
Basically Help!

February 13, 2012 at 2:40 am
(184) Free Love says:

Yes fantasising about anal is normal. Yes lusting after youth is normal.
Hell what’s normal anyway? I don’t think monogamy is normal, it’s a social construct.
I think some men like porn because they don’t feel free to have sex with as many women as they would like to. Some women are frustrated for the same reason, they just deny it better. Many women want to control their man’s sexuality because they think it will give them the security they crave, or need if they have children.
I’m a woman and I would love it if we could feel free to just enjoy sex with whoever we want to. I realise it would cause chaos in our society as it is, but maybe we need change.
I met a younger guy the other night who couldn’t believe a sexy woman would be ok with a delicious joyful sexual connection and not want ‘a relationship’. He was also amazed I thought things like licking balls and cumming on tits was hot and beautiful, not dirty. What is going on?? Where is the joy and love of our bodies and everything they do and feel? We have so much growth to do as humans in this area.
Most of us, especially women, have not even begun to scratch the surface of our true sexual nature. Men are to be commended for exploring their sexuality and not letting the fire go out altogether, albeit in a hobbled sexually dysfunctional culture.
Sexuality is powerful and real and it can be raw and hot, ethereal and awesome. Never feel guilty about your desires and don’t let others constrain you.
Why should one of the most ecstatic human experiences be so controlled? Because it is so powerful.
Slowly, slowly..with awareness and care we’ll get there :)

February 17, 2012 at 4:39 pm
(185) juliana says:

I guess people should start to se porno as what it really is: women exploitation,no matter how !”beautiful words” is used to defend it.It´s painfull to se women beliving in sexist craps and defending it.If porno is so cool,why women in their have such miserable lives and need to use drugs?Why it contais rapes and insults to women? Why do you all think that rape and violence agianst us women is increasing?
Iam chocked with the lack of empathy men feel for us..if we say we don´t like it,they reply: f* you all,we will go on using it.is it respect for us? can we reach equality in a pornified wporld where women are sold like commodities?
If porno is ok,so racism and nazism are ok too! or we women are noyt human and our humilation is a men´s right?

March 5, 2012 at 5:25 pm
(186) Janelle says:

An this person thinks that women are not stimulated by visual things?
Are you kidding me?

What’s the one thing that’s most important to women in a guy?
It’s that he’s good looking. Come on people. : \

March 6, 2012 at 3:44 pm
(187) Lois says:

I’m an old girl now. In my lifetime I’ve had a couple marriages and many intimate short lived romances. It’s been my consistent observation with all of these men, that they find sexual intimacy with a partner exhausting. They are required to perform a lot of work… both physically and emotionally. Masturbation is sooo much easier for them. As for porn? Well, here we have a willing sexual object, that requires absolutely no physical effort on the man’s part except for his jerking hand. Men may be quite interested in gaining sexual release, but their laziness and frequent quest for the quickest and easiest road to that end, leaves their partner often sexually frustrated. Why bother with the kisses, touches, loving words and stimulation of a partner? That requires too much effort. I have always been ready, willing and able in all my relationships only to be passed over when my guy chose to use his hand instead. I know I’m not alone. Too many other women I have spoken to suffer the same fate as me.

March 28, 2012 at 7:04 pm
(188) Lavender26 says:

Men will justify to the end of their lives why they watch porn. If watching someone take it up the a** or being raped is enjoyable to any man it leaves me with some serious questions about how healthy he is.
In their wildest dreams these men would never get these women in pornos. And even if they did they are going to find out after awhile, she’s like any other woman out there except with a whole bunch of foreign DNA floating around in her innards. How can that be good with hundreds of men being inside of one woman? It’s like using a toothbrush that 300 people have used before you and it’s never been rinsed. Just plain dirty. Oh…..I just answered my own question. Men like them because they’re dirty,
Women are just as visual as men. If we’re not then only a man can truly enjoy a beautiful painting or a sunset over the ocean. So you say men are more sexual. Well that’s cuz there’s a whole buffet out there to whet your appetite and women have basically been erased from the equation except as a sexual tool. Sad…….

April 23, 2012 at 5:58 pm
(189) Tshane says:

This is a stimulating and enlightening conversation. The stimulation first (being a man who loves sex, pretty women and talk about sex), then some analysis:

I would love to meet Free Love. You sound hot.

I am dating a woman as wild and willing as you. I love it! She is free and sexy, and loves anal and looking at porn. For her, the stimulation of the nerves in her anus is BETTER than vaginal intercourse, although she loves both. She is also very turned on by giving oral sex, all of which makes me a very lucky man indeed! (If only she enjoyed threesomes and orgies with other women, I would have it all!)

Ladies, is she a rare bird? Or do you know many other women like her?

Regarding watching porn together, I feel more embarrassed than she does, possibly because of my messed up Catholic, repressed upbringing. I also don’t want her to feel inferior as the women are far more attractive than her…she doesn’t seem to care, I have asked her several times–but I feel worried about her feelings. In any case, looking at porn always leads to sex, and we have a great time, intimate and sexy and sometimes rough, usually with lots of kissing and cuddling before and after.

By the way @Anonymous girl: If you think you can track your BF’s porn site visits–you can’t. He can either erase them or use “stealth mode” or “private browsing” on the browser to not record them. No way to tell unless you find cached pix in the computer, or catch him doing it.

April 23, 2012 at 6:23 pm
(190) Tshane says:

Phil C (as well as Socrates and Mike, #94 or 95) had the most balanced, reasoned and calm, fact-based and analytical perspectives. Many of those who responded misread, misinterpreted his words and ideas through the filter of their own perceptions, NOT what he/they wrote.

It was pathetic to see so much misunderstanding and miscommunication—and not from him! He was extremely clear, detailed and also open-minded. On the other hand, those who got angry about what he wrote appeared to be close-minded, set in their values and beliefs, and so set in those that they found it impossible to clearly apprehend all that he was saying.

Those antagonistic to his views often made “straw man” claims—claiming he said things when he did NOT, only to knock those things (empty–nonexistent) down with their arguments. This is an old, sad, useless rhetorical trick. Whatever. Many who read and write cannot think, apparently. Not surprising. Reasoning and debate are not widely or deeply taught in American schools.

I don’t know what “all men” like. I possibly represent lots of men in some ways, not so many in others. Who knows? I like anal and vaginal penetration. I like oral to some degree, not as much as the other. Having sex with an armpit or a foot would not turn me on, LOL.

I look at “teen anal sex” sites and find slim, sexy, pretty and sexually open young women very hot. Many other men like it too. Some like Big Black Females. Some like transvestites. (They turn me on initially, then they bother me. I can somehow tell they’re not female, even if surgery is complete.)

I have looked at bondage sites and sometimes they turn me on. They always feature the interview after with the supposed “abused” woman, who reveals how exhilirating it was–and consensual.

April 23, 2012 at 6:29 pm
(191) Tshane says:

Some days I like big boobs, most days I like small ones. Sometimes MILFs, sometimes lesbian sex, sometimes big c*cks/small chicks. Sometimes biracial, sometimes college sex parties. Usually the women I’m most attracted to are under 30.

I know a man who coaches sports, who knows many, many other men in the coaching community. They all have roughly the same fantasies: directing pornos, having sex with pretty young women, anal, all the rest.

They are not degenerates or perverts. They love sex, love women, feel turned on by symmetry in the body (symmetrical bodies appear most attractive to both sexes—research proves it) and most are married or have girlfriends and enjoy their fantasies. Some may be cheating (who ever knows till one is caught?), many are not.

They fantasize about threesomes, orgies, blowjobs, anal, cunnilingus. Most of all they would love to try “someone different”. The one with a slim blonde wife wants a thicker brunette, and vice versa. The one who is hot for big boobs may have fallen love with a woman with great legs but small on top. But he would soon get bored with the boobs of a bigger-boobed woman and fantasize about others with big boobs, or even some with small boobs. This is along the lines of the Coolidge Effect, mentioned by Socrates.

All of this is NORMAL.

That being said, there is, as most psychologists and sociologists—who actually STUDY human behavior—recognize no such thing as “normal.” There are ranges of behavior that many follow, and some that few follow. Normal” is not the point. The point: does a behavior work for you and contribute to your life in constructive ways, or is it destructive?

Those who are moralistic, in that they follow another’s prescribed moral code, would say that’s too “relativistic.” Well, if it’s not hurting oneself or another—how could it possibly be “bad??”

April 23, 2012 at 6:35 pm
(192) Tshane says:

To women who are “hot” or deem themselves too attractive for their man to want porn:

No matter how you delude yourselves that you should be “enough” for a man, he will always be attracted as well to others. Remember, the very hotness you showed him makes him hot for other women. How can you ask him to be specifically hot for you, then not hot for women just as attractive or more so, or differently attractive?

And for women who say men being attracted to (it’s always OTHER) women for their bodies is “shallow”—what the hell do you wear heels and clothing and makeup for??? You’re trying to fool a man into believing you are hotter than you really are— and enhancing and revealing your assets while hiding your liabilities. You are playing the VERY SAME GAME, but on the opposite end. Your points are hypocritical to the point of the ridiculous.

The very attraction he has for you is generic and variable; it does not go away just because he found “Oh So Special You.” After all, you are still a woman, with boobs, butt and legs and cunny. Your details differ, but the “woman” format is roughly the same!

That said, you ARE special to him—your personality is unique—but he will always be attracted to what he perceives is someone a lot like you, but BETTER (or different, or both) in various ways.

Or more likely, attracted to some girl SEEMING to be better, because “the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.”

April 23, 2012 at 6:38 pm
(193) Tshane says:

As for women whose men didn’t want to have as much sex as they did and turn more often to porn…they need to recognize several possibilities—most of which fall under the category of “it’s a poor match and you don’t want to admit it”:

Pt. I of II:

1) You or the sex or both are boring. You need a sex life makeover, and you both need to participate. Spice it up. Watch porn together, tell fantasies, dress up, pretend and role play, etc.

2) He’s not that into you sexually. Just because you like sex, and like it a lot, does NOT mean he is as attracted to you as some other men seem to be. (FYI: the attraction from other men is all fantasy. They don’t know what it’s like to be with you, and are fantasizing only about your body, not the real, entire “you” in a real life.) He may be with you for other reasons—self-esteem and prestige, peer pressure to succeed with a trophy wife, his sex drive has fallen (hence the porn—it takes more to get up) or he has lost interest for any number of reasons.

3) Your intense sexuality may be turning him off because he prefers to be “the aggressor.” It may hurt his ego not to be the one seeking sex, because men are “supposed to” be hornier than women. (Peer and self pressure.)

4) You’re getting older, and that is less attractive to a majority of men. It is hard-wired, as evidenced by the ancient paintings in Rome, to want fertile, young, attractive (symmetrical and thus more healthy) women. It’s just life and it’s unfair. It’s the driving reason for the cosmetics, fashion and plastic surgery industries. The best you can do is be your best self, make yourself look good, exercise and eat healthy, and enjoy him for who he is…

–more in next post Pt. II–

April 23, 2012 at 6:42 pm
(194) Tshane says:

As for women whose men didn’t want to have as much sex as they did and turn more often to porn…they need to recognize several possibilities—most of which fall under the category of “it’s a poor match and you don’t want to admit it”:

Pt. II of II:

5) You’re shallow or one-dimensional. He married you primarily for your sexual attractiveness when you were younger, and now that you’ve lost some of that, he doesn’t like the rest of you enough to stay interested.

6) You’ve both simply grown apart, don’t have the same attraction and interests and values as you did, or thought you did in your early marriage ignorance/bliss.

7) You’re emotionally and psychologically manipulative and abusive with lots of blaming, judging, accusing, insults, controlling, manipulating, etc. These are relationship killers and lust destroyers. So is neediness and incessant whining, obsession with material things, demanding he listen to you as your girlfriends would about subjects he’s never been interested in, and other relationship draggers-down.

The BOTTOM LINE:

Finally–if he doesn’t enjoy you anymore, FIND SOMEONE WHO DOES! You are not bound like an Indian child bride to stay with a man your parents set up for you to marry. You are free, this is America—make your choice and pursue happiness!

You could also consider polyamory–loving more than one person at once, and that means sexually and otherwise. Blow up your preconceptions–try something new and FULFILLING for once!

April 23, 2012 at 7:00 pm
(195) Tshane says:

I see a lot of judgment of men (especially toward Phil C!) coming from women who seem to believe that every male should see and understand things and behave just the way they do.

It’s narrow-minded, but the narrow-minded never seem to realize that it is. They are RIGHT and that’s it, no room for opposing viewpoints and flexibility in perspective: It’s “my way or the highway.”

For women who say their men “never” use porn or condone it; you might have a big surprise in store if you heard their private talk with other men, or looked deeper into their computer files (can usually only be done by a professional) or in the basement, garage or shed where the porn is often secreted.

Individuals vary, but men ARE hard-wired for attraction to a variety (as are women, the latest research shows), and no man thinks “only” of his wife as the sole sex object in his life, however much he professes it (again, while pressured by his peer group in the religion or community).

This is a fantasy promoted by religions in order to appeal to those with a strict “moral” code regarding sexuality–and maybe even promoted by men to obtain better access to more women, who tend more to believe porn is wrong! (Such codes have nothing to do with morality, in my opinion, but with group and personal preferences, and self-interest.)

Human sexuality, as it is studied by anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists, could never fit into the confines of any religion or other doctrinaire belief systems–those prescribed by self-appointed authority figures.

…continued…

April 23, 2012 at 7:03 pm
(196) Tshane says:

…continued from last post…

People are also hard wired for acceptance and respect and love, and sometimes get caught up in meeting the “norms”—no matter how false or inhuman—spelled out or implied by their chosen (or born-into) peer group. I believe this is true for the ultra-religious and cult members even more so than in the “normal” (whatever that is!) population.

Again, doing what is in general terms best for oneself, family and community should be the overlapping goals of one’s behavior, not conforming to a strict, arbitrary code of behavior defined by those one respects or even bows to.
———————————–

I’ve been verbose–but this topic is fascinating, and it is good writing practice. I hope I’ve entertained and even informed some readers. If any of you are out there anymore…

May 2, 2012 at 12:05 am
(197) Psycho says:

I think with with about majority of society need to PROPERLY look at the other genders perspective on the subject.
There are too many men not fully looking into the female perspective but rather they keep on arguing there point and justifying there reasonings.
first of all i believe masturbation is unnatural and animal like behaviour. Animals in the wild masturbate cause they obviously like it but they do not understand what they are doing. So why is it being said that masturbation is natural to do??? These animals tend to eat there own feaces at times, but how come we don’t look at this behaviour as a natural thing to do for us?
Second of all the porn industry has created a different view towards sex for whoever watches it, and for people who like watching porn, the perspective porn offers is preferred, although it is not reality, it is what us men prefer and enjoy more. It is just a fantasy world, it is a woman that changes body, hair colour, race, breasts, whatever you like and never nags you and us men aren’t in with a relationship with these people so there just there whenever we want them to be and help stimulate us. It’s just like drugs and alcohol in a way, they are an escape from reality.
I agree with what PhilC is saying that women should take more care of themselves and maybe try different things, but that won’t get a man who loves his porn off his computer.
Both parties do tend to act lazy, woman should put in more of a effort to satisfy there man but in return men have to put in the effort to get off the porn. It is not healthy in a proper marriage/relationship to fantasise other men or woman.
Through experimenting i have found that whatever one masturbates over, they grow a sexual attraction towards.
some of you can try masturbating over your partner but ONLY your partner.
thanks.
But that is my perspective

June 19, 2012 at 4:35 pm
(198) amy says:

phil. i have only just looked at this site. if you are still writing,are you married?.i jsu want a perspective on your remarks.

July 25, 2012 at 3:15 am
(199) i want sex tonight says:

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August 6, 2012 at 5:39 pm
(200) darksecret says:

I say who cares…Iam a semi-big girl who has a great sex life along with my boyfriend….I dont care if he looks at porn hell so do I PROBABLY MORE THAN HE DOES!!!!!….this however takes nothing away from him…I like porn it gives me great ideas…i dont think its demeaning to women at all….considering we have done a lot of the things that are done in porn….but at the end of the day iam still still who iam A DIVA!!!!….an my man is still my man….so i say to my man go ahead fantasize about the little skinny model type women….better yet lets fantasize about her together…..lol

September 2, 2012 at 10:58 am
(201) Tish says:

This guy is a worthless load– that is the most “honest” statement in any of these comments so far. Clearly he is bitter because his relationships never work out (probably because of him). It’s honest, yeah, honestly BS.
I’m not a man, but I do believe men have more control over themselves than to sleep with any woman they see if they are drunk (yes, I’m defending you imbeciles). If you do that, what’s to stop you from sleeping with a man, or child if you were drunk? Guess there really is something to assuming all men are pedophiles when you have a child then, huh? If we can stop ourselves from clawing your faces off during PMS, then you damn sure can control your little sex hormones.
Some women (like myself), do feel the strong urge to look at porn, even sometimes against our better judgement. However, don’t use the lame excuse that you’re wives aren’t keeping their appearances up, so you were forced to watch porn/seek other outlets. You know good and well you probably aren’t the same as when you married her, either.
@Jim C
You’re wife probably doesn’t want sex with you because you treat her like crap. “She had been busy with stuff I don’t care about?” Please, you’re a bitter, pathetic pile of feces. Can’t admit your lack of sex in the marriage is your own fault.

September 12, 2012 at 7:02 pm
(202) WTF Seriously? says:

Part 1
First of all – Props to PhilC who hasn’t posted since 2010. Very good points all around.

Having read the entire thread I will touch bases on a few comments.

Stars naked – see 1972 Cosmopolitan Magazine poster of Burt Reynolds (Mr. Happy is covered but not by much). In “The Terminator” Arnold’s naked butt shot you can actually see Mr Happy swinging as he walks away from the camera. I could go on if I chose to but come on really once you’ve seen one…

We all have the same equipment (male or female) it just comes in different sizes. Who cares some guys like apples some cantaloupes. I once had a friend whose boyfriend thought I was hot except my boobs were too big he felt that anything more than a hand-full was too much. I was ok with that (so was she – they had a “look don’t touch” policy).

Porn is subjective – If a person (male or female) is visually stimulated and gets turned on (hard-core or soft – Cinemax after midnight BTW) what is the problem??? My husband of 23 years has his midnight sessions (he doesn’t know I am aware) while I am sleeping next to him. Sometimes I wake up & watch – It is his thing if he wanted me to know he’d tell me.

I don’t get visual porn as it does nothing for me. I am more cerebral and tend to read various forms of erotica. Not 50 Shades (I have read Harlequins with more details) think The Sleeping Beauty Series by A.N. Roquelaure (Anne Rice). It works for me & I do my thing.

September 12, 2012 at 7:05 pm
(203) WTF Seriously? says:

Part 2

I am a plus size (20-22) & 5’10″ now when I was younger before kids and a desk job my measurements were 38″, 22″, 38″ (my measurements are bigger but still the same proportion). You know what guys never asked me out. No – I am not unfortunate looking (I had a co-worker say I was stunning once and at a restaurant the waitress said I was beautiful). Having looks and a bod can scare the guys off. Not to say I never dated – I had to ask them!

Beer Goggles – My only words of wisdom to my son when he graduated from HS were: “Nothing good happens after 1am. Nothing! The girls get prettier, the guys get better looking and the next thing you know you are chewing off your arm to get away & doing the walk of shame.” He;s a JR at Uni and if he wants my advice he asks for it as he know my feelings about unsolicited advice (my words to my mother when I was 15 were “I am perfectly capable of F****** up my own life, I don’t need your help”). If he wants to talk sex we talk, sex, if he wants to buy a bong I’ll go with him & tell him not to waste his money (just use a beer can – I don’t approve BTW). I love him & support him but his decisions are his & he has to live with any consequences of his actions.

My hubby & I go on the theory that we are “Married not Dead” and looking is ok no jealousy. If I see a cute girl I point her out (he does the same with guys). No biggie.

September 12, 2012 at 7:07 pm
(204) WTF Seriously? says:

Part 4

There is someone for everyone. It just may take awhile. I have had really good looking friends end up with “homely” guys (and vice versa).

The looks are not important. C’mon guys how many times have you wondered – is the tan fake , natural hair & eye coulour, real boobs, butt (yes girls have been known to pad), height (girls with heels guys with lifts in their shoes), makeup (men & women). We ALL have done something cosmetically to make ourselves look better to the opposite sex (sometimes big sometimes small). I look at people & wonder how much is real person & how much is plastic. If it makes them feel good & they are doing the superficial change for themselves I have no problem (because society or someone else says they should problem). Either way it isn’t my place to judge I have an opinion but it is their life.

September 14, 2012 at 1:23 pm
(205) mk says:

“Men are visual when it comes to sex; it is part of the feedback loop. That’s why women appear pretty or sexy. It’s what attracts men to women….

Many men have a need for additional stimulation. This is accomplished in various levels depending on a combination of factors including character, sex drive, sex life, stress, hormones – any number of things. Porn adds a visual stimulant that helps taper or increase the sex drive….

Women get confused about this. Men aren’t having sex with the models in the pornography, the stimulant is watching others having sex.

Some men find a trip to Hooters stimulating. Others frequent strip joints. Some up the ante with drugs or alcohol. Others employ the world’s oldest professional, prostitutes. Still others are compulsive cheaters….

If you want a demonstration of how primitive men’s sex drives are add some beer to the mix. Watch as his social barriers diminish and his sex drive take over. Men will have sex with just about any female after a few drinks; hence the term ‘beer goggles’. Some men need alcohol to have sex as they need help in reducing inhibitions or they find their mate unattractive.”

Take it from an old man, this is pretty much spot on

September 28, 2012 at 10:17 pm
(206) Angie says:

This is all a bunch of nonsense to justify immoral behaviour. If watching porn is so natural how did men survive before the internet?????
All this bull**** about men being hardwired such and such a way…how come they’re not hardwired to do good things? and please, people, stop classifying yourselves as animals!!! Mankind is nowehere close to animals. Sheesh!! Men need to grow up and take more responsibility in this world. It’s not all about your dicks!

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October 2, 2012 at 1:15 pm
(208) mk says:

” people, stop classifying yourselves as animals!!! Mankind is nowehere close to animals.”

Oh yes we are in he cosmic scheme of things. Our DNA is very closely related to primates.

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