Yesterday I flew out of Chicago on American Airlines. The smaller American Eagle plane had only flight attendant - an affable, pleasant man in his late forties/early fifties who seemed thoughtful and was good at anticipating his passengers' needs.
At our destination we were delayed at the gate. Over the intercom, the attendant announced the problem was the jetway. "It appears we have a student driver," he said wryly, "and they're GIRLS."
Sitting in the back of the plane, I groaned very loudly. And I knew my friend Trisha Torrey, up front, had the same reaction. I was very surprised to hear this type of comment coming from him.
No Longer Funny
I'm not humorless. I get the "women drivers" joke. But c'mon, didn't this stop being funny decades ago?
I thought about not saying anything. But Trisha - who had deplaned before me - had other ideas.
When I got to the front, the attendant was in the cockpit alerting the pilot and co-pilot that a women's issues writer was on the plane; Trisha had told him I wouldn't be happy about his comments. "That's me," I said to him. "I'm sure it was tongue-in-cheek, but it bothered me."
Later, at baggage claim, the pilot and co-pilot approached me and Trisha, apologizing for the comment.
They recognized it was inappropriate. So why did the attendant say it?
Why I Spoke Up
Some would say it was no big deal and that I was overreacting. Here's my reply:
- Take the idea behind it - "They're bad drivers and they're girls" - and substitute any of these words: black, disabled, fat. Clearly, any of those comments would reek of prejudice.
- My 16-year-old daughter is thinking of becoming a commercial airline pilot and is working this summer to pay for private pilot lessons. What does that comment say about how the abilities of women are regarded on the airfield? "Girls are too incompetent to move a jetway. Don't even think about flying a plane."
- The use of "girl" in this context is a putdown. To legally operate machinery of this type, the driver would have to at least 21. Would you call a man of this age a boy? Then why call a woman a "girl"?
Nice Guy, Dumb Comment
Let me make this clear: I don't want this attendant fired or reprimanded. He appears to be a nice guy who does a tough job well. Earlier, when he saw me working on my laptop, he pulled down all the window shades around me to reduce light and glare. He handled a two-thirds full plane with ease and speed and I was impressed with his competence.
But he said something dumb in front of a captive audience, and I called him on it.
Changing His Mind
I wear a sterling silver bracelet that says, "Well-behaved women rarely make history." Some would say I wasn't well-behaved in this situation - that I was too pushy and outspoken. I was outspoken, but my intent was not to change history. Just the mind of one man working in a public setting who should have known better.
Comments
Linda – good, objective description of the incident.
I agree with you that this is not about changing history. It was an opportunity to make a point.
Two additional comments from this friend who was on the plane with you: first, that there were several children on the plane, all of whom not only heard the comment, but heard the passengers react loudly when the “and they’re girls!” comment was made. Kids pattern the adults around them. Let’s hope their takeaway was not that it was OK for adults to make dumb gender comments.
And second – you refrained from mentioning that the flight attendant was either gay, or could have been easily mistaken for being gay. No doubt he has weathered many callous and uncalled for comments in his lifetime. His own history should have been enough to make him hold his tongue.
Were you being pushy? I think not. Many women before us have worked hard to create the environment where these kinds of comments are unacceptable. You did them proud.
Trisha
It’s an interesting experience, and I do agree it sounded like a very boorish comment – definitely a foot in the mouth moment. But I do also find it interesting under the category of perception and everything is relevant…
I was at the theatre this weekend for a bit of improv – Linda you know where and what event – anyway a lot of the jokes made and humor found had to do with the size of the large male actor among the players. Easy jokes since the sight of a fat man is a simple laugh – its the one stereotype that is univerally still ok to use and weild – now one is writing blogs or correcting public comments over a boorish fat man joke… Hell, as a fat man I am the first to be self deprecating… I have made a good career over playing on the jokes and stereotypes my form brings out in society.
But… there is a cutting edge to that sword, since I know it is the first thing people see. And it has its effects, since it is ok to laugh at the fat guy. In fact, it is ok not to accept him as anything but a clown or an oaf…
If you check the news and media… it is proper and correct not to date him. it is ok not to hire him, since he will drive up medical costs and is a bad risk. It is ok not have clothing in stores in his size, it’s even ok to charge him extra for that seat next to you on the plane.
Would Homer or Family Guy be funny without him? Of course not, since it’s ok… it’s just a fat guy.
It’s all relevant.
Great post. I really liked how you compared how it would be to make the comment about other groups of people. When I first read it, I thought that the attendant’s comment was perhaps a little off-color but not really a big deal. But I would have felt totally different if it had been addressed to black, fat, or disabled people. It’s a very good point that that attitude also makes things difficult for actual girls trying to make a career in that environment. Thank you for writing something so thought-provoking.
I guess I wasn’t aware at how fragile women really are. Men can hear “the bigger the boys the bigger the toys”, and “Boys will be boys” and endure hours of sitcoms ridiculing men and fatherhood with commercials doing the same (And still manage to get on and off of planes without an episode) but it seems women just implode, lose sight of career goals and apparently believe “behaving”(whatever that is) would doom their place in history? I guess THESE women don’t read much history outside of a few feminist essays. I’ve always considered that men joke with and about women, women joke with and about men and we were all equals. Never saw them as delicate vessels of perpetual victim hood but I seem to be in the minority… Good eye opening article, but I’ll continue to acknowledge women as equals who understand the difference between being disrespected and good natured ribbing, and roll my eyes at those who I think have some growing up to do.
Chris, I’m glad to hear that you ‘acknowledge women as equals’ and applaud you for it – and that you are comfortable enough to participate in good natured ribbing with your female friends, co-workers, and the women in your life.
Do you have a daughter? Are you a father? Because when comments like these are made, it’s not just ‘THESE’ women who are in earshot – it’s young girls who, time and time again, subtly get the message that they’re not good enough. One comment by a flight attendant on a plane is no big deal to you, but when this good natured ribbing is heard again and again and again in a variety of situations, these ‘digs’ build up and young girls hear and internalize the message.
Twelve years ago, Mary Pipher wrote an excellent book, “Reviving Ophelia: Saving the Selves of Adolescent Girls,” which essentially deals with this issue – how girls get messages that they’re not worthy, and they go underground with their intelligence to fit in. She is not a feminist, and the book was wildly successful in the publishing world. Why? Because she hit on something that women, girls, and many men understand: We treat boys differently from girls.
What you’ve said has real truth to it: Studies show boys externalize the outcomes of negative situations (”I failed the test but that stupid teacher didn’t tell us to study the right stuff”) whereas girls internalize (”I failed the test because I’m stupid – it’s my fault I didn’t study the right chapters.”) This is not a feminist theory; women are hard-wired this way.
So you and I disagree on this issue. In a social situation, when there’s ribbing between men and women in private conversations, it’s not an issue to me – I get the joke. But when this comment is made in a public setting in a voice dripping with sarcasm, and young girls and teens overhear it along with ‘THESE’ women, then yeah, I’m going to speak up. Even if you ridicule me for it. Especially if you ridicule me for it.
Thanks for sharing your opinions. As you can see, I’m tough enough to take them.
….good for you…..
Unless we call people on these offhand remarks and make them aware of how they are perpetuating discrimination we will not be able to change anything. Your bringing this to the crew’s attention was well done. Bravo for planting the seeds for thought.
Yes, I’m a father. Between my wife and I, we are doing our best to raise a daughter who would not allow herself to be treated with disrespect both by treating each other with respect and by respecting her. She has a strong spirit and is quite opinionated, must get that from her mother!
This man acted unprofessionally, that much is clear and I agree he should have been called on that, I just don’t agree with all of the other assertions. I do think it’s interesting what you said about how boys externalize things and girls internalize them. It’s just that, in life we all (male and female) are told outright we aren’t good enough by a host of people. I don’t think it’s right but if this crushed us, what could be done? We’re somewhat mystified at the differences between girls and boys but there does appear (at least in our family) a difference. We prescreened programs and avoided the doll aisles and advised family not to give dolls as gifts to our daughter to try to save her the “I’m a girl, I need a doll” syndrome. She made dolls with inanimate objects and eventually got old enough to realize we were passing by the doll aisle. She now owns 4 dolls. Our son who is obsessed with cars (anything with wheels) has to play house with his cars in order to interest her. The boy likes his teddy bear but not a doll. I don’t pretend to know why. Anyway, I researched the author and she’s from my state. Based on what you said, I’d be interested in what the book says, I’ll pick up a copy and let you know.
ya up ya done good thar litte lady..har har..seriously, I am NOT a guy who was good naturedly ribbing ya..I totally agree with your stance and so does my husband who thank god, is in toouch with his feminine side, but all man thank you, and we agree that these remarks cannot be flipped off as ‘good natured ribbing’ or anything like it, it gets internalized and has been for too many years the norm, good point about if it was changed to ‘blacks, gays, etc’ instead of GIRLS. It was a cheap shot, period, but certainly not a job breaker but definitely a mention-er.
Silence is rarely “golden”.
Injustice needs action. Elie Wiesel said “if you can’t do anything to stop the injustice, then you must bear witness to it”.
As an Artist, I know world-wide the first thing all Artists do is they observe things all around them before they express them creatively.
We might use various tweaks, tools, etc. but the voice has proven throughout history is importance in halting & inspiring “change” for better or worse.
Maya Angelou’s “So I Rise” and “What A Woman Should Know” are powerful inspirations of change.
Lighten up.
Is This Sexism?
My husband works with 99% women; when he comes home and we discuss work he refers to his co workers as “the ladies”. I have told him that his thinking is dated and comments are promoting sexism as he is looking at them as “skirts” only and not individuals with titles for which they have earned, or employees that have a name.
What do you think?
Посмотрел предыдущие комментарии, в целом соглашусь, хотя есть и своё мнение на этот счёт.
Linda,
I have a three-year-old second cousin and up until this year, she loved Elmo from “Sesame Street.” Now she likes that pink character with the ponytails. Why the change of heart? Someone told her that “Elmo is for boys.” That’s pretty dumb. When I was younger, I liked Ernie and Bert–a couple of male characters–and no one ever told me that they were for boys only. I don’t think the creators of “Sesame Street” intended for the characters to be for boys only or girls only. They were made for ALL children. Yet now, my second cousin’s mind has been poisoned. One simple comment is all it takes for sexism to take root, and it has now taken root in her.
Linkr,
In regards to your question about your husband referring to his co-workers as “the ladies” and the fact you feel as if this may be promoting sexism, i’d throughly have to disagree, I am a baker by trade and at my work the girls/women out the front are referred to as the “shop girls” regardless of age. This doesn’t bother any of them and no-one at my work feels as if it’s sexist in anyway what so ever.
Alex.
Linda, other feminists on this site,
Would you be so strong as to send a letter to the Networks for airing commercials that make men look like they are stupid bafoons while their ’smarter’ and more aware wives laugh off their behavior as ‘that’s just my husband’?
No. The point is, you aren’t looking for true equality within the genders, otherwise you would be making your same ‘points’ when there is OBVIOUS sexism going the other way. How can you cry ‘equality’ and ‘open-mindedness’ when you can so blindly look the other way when our commercials make fun of men in order to make women appear ‘in control’?
See, the greater point is, you don’t even notice those commercials. You probably laugh at them. You laugh at them, because some of you can see your husbands acting that way. That’s what makes it funny. The same way it’s funny to say the things about women drivers, etc…
Well, I suspect you don’t notice those commercials, otherwise, you can’t possibly hold credibility advocating ‘equal rights’, while you do nothing to stop those commercials from airing.
But then, if you do not even recognize it, then that means you truly do not acknowledge or recognize what a REAL ‘double standard’ is. You only recognize something that makes you feel inadequate, but don’t care how others feel about how they are portrayed.
So, how can a person who believes to be a ‘leader’ of a group be a true leader, when they are so ‘tunnel-visioned’?
Maybe the problem is you should all lighten up. The guy saying what he said was funny. It’s not something that ‘goes out of style’ unless you yourself have no sense of humor. The same way those commercials I speak of are funny, and most of you women on here would agree.
Hmmm, maybe you shouldn’t take yourself so seriously, then, huh?
PhilC, you have a lot of anger over this issue and it comes through loud and clear in your comments.
The commercials that you describe are stupid, but they are selected by the advertiser — and the best way to discourage these types of commercials (whether they mock men or women) is to refuse to buy the product.
What I take issue with is the idea that one person (a flight attendant) makes a statement that promotes a stereotype that is outdated and ignorant (women are bad drivers). See one reader’s take on this.
It’s also unfortunate that his dumb comment puts him in a poor light, along with the airline he represents. He’s not a TV commercial that can be turned off if it’s annoying or negative. The plane was full of women and children and as Veronica pointed out in a comment above, statements like these sting young girls and stay with them.
Put-downs have become an accepted part of entertainment culture and society, and much of it is hurtful and wrong. When it happens in the company of adults who choose to engage in it (and pay good money to do so, such as a comedy club) then I’m not going to scream and cause a fuss. To each his own.
But when I am paying hundreds of dollars for a flight – and someone delivers less than stellar service (by making a sexist comment) – then it creates an uncomfortable atmosphere and it influences whether or not I’ll travel with that airline again.
In that situation, I’m sure the airline execs would like to know when someone steps over the line, because it could impact their bottom line.
Likewise when you have an issue with a TV ad, make your opinion known. You’ll never see me criticizing you for doing it.
If I don’t kick up a fuss here on this site, it’s because it’s a “women’s issues” site and that’s my focus. But in real life, I don’t care for put-downs of either men or women and feel that gender equity works both ways.
lol, calm down womenissues. No anger here, just a point to make.
As I said, maybe you shouldn’t take yourselves so seriously. I don’t. That means I’m not angry about the commercials.
I just sense hypocrisy and I call you out on it. There’s serious hypocrisy going on in the feminist world.
In case you need me to revisit my original post for you, you’ll notice I’m not talking about what I will or won’t do about the commercials. I think they’re funny, some of them. No, I’m just wondering where the feminists are.
After all, feminists only want equality, not control, right?
And if you only want equality, then you surely will step up and have the same voice when there’s obvious sexism against men? I mean you’re against sexism, right? Not just sexism against women, I hope, otherwise you are all more hypocritical than I thought. You know, maybe the problem is feminists only think the word sexism means ‘thoughts of superiority over women’, when in fact it really means ‘thoughts of superiority of one sex over the other sex’
After all, if we’re equal, what’s bad for you is bad for me. If it hurts future generations of girls to see how women are portrayed, then you can’t understand the logic that it also hurts future generations of boys to see how men are portrayed? Unless, you think we’re not equal and that boys are mentally stronger than girls and they won’t be affected in the same way. Maybe that’s it?
And what about the message we’re sending to young girls? Boys are dumb, you are smarter than them and you can control them because they’re a bafoon? That’s a negative message. That will hurt relationships. That cannot happen, because it simply is not true.
But, as I’ve often believed, it’s just proving to me that feminists don’t want equality, they want control.
I mean, you seem to think you’re smart. Make the correlation yourself between 1930s men and today’s feminists.
1930s men made laws and rules and everything based on their needs. They didn’t think how it effected the women of this country. They basically said ‘let them fend for themselves’.
Feminists today make rules and laws based on their own needs. They don’t think how it effects the men in this country. They basically say ‘let them fend for themselves’.
I mean, if it weren’t true then feminists today would be outraged to the point of action, at the way their equal partner men are portrayed in commercials and in society today, wouldn’t they?
And if they aren’t, then it just means they are hypocrites. It means they only care about themselves. Only care about women. If that’s the case, then how is that different then the men of the past?
In which case, I could easily and rightfully argue that the only reason feminists were so upset is that men beat them to control first.
I know you won’t acknowledge this concept. I already know your argument. I’ve heard all the feminist crap. But how about you put your ego down for a second, and look at what I’m saying. You’ll see that I’m right.
Basically, because it’s called ‘feminism’, you are excluding care for the integrity of men. If it were called ‘anti-sexism’, then it would encompass both sexes, and it would truly show an intent of equality. Can’t you see that?
The only difference between the men of yesteryear and feminists of today is that the men were open about it. They didn’t hide behind the idea of ‘equality’. They basically said, ‘we can do this, you can’t’. Feminism is doing the same thing, but hiding behind an emotional cry of equality, and therefore causing many people to be confused and gaining support for it.
This is the truth, and only ego and emotion will stop you from seeing it.
As expected, there’s going to be a male poster here that tries to twist around the meaning of the word “feminism” and turn the tables on us. And I always feel compelled to respond to such “arguments”.
You seem to be forgetting that there are still tons of issues that women have to deal with around the world.
The fact that there places in the world where women are treated inferior to men, or where women’s rights are limited.
The fact that there are still countries in this world where women aren’t allowed to vote.
The fact that majority of world leaders are men who decide the demise of women.
The fact that the technical industry is dominated by men…and people raise their eyebrows at women who decide to go into these industries.
The fact that women are still generally treated as mere sex toys and baby-incubators.
And it’s still pre-dominantly men who decide to what extent we should be treated that way.
When we say we want equality, what we want is to be treated as if we can also make a difference in the world, not just stay in the kitchen and make “sammiches” the whole day. We want to have a chance at education, at a career, without having to worry about fitting into our gender roles that we don’t want to fit into. We don’t want to become hairdressers or housewives just because society is dictating it (which is run mostly by men). We don’t want to stay at home and pop out babies that this already overpopulated world doesn’t need. We want to contribute to society too, but if you expect us to have babies, we’ll need help around the house too.
What annoys me is the fact that men like you complain about women trying to gain control or superiority over men. That’s just another lame excuse to complain about women “taking away men’s rights”. I think what you’re trying to say is that feminism just made it harder for you to get away with things that you used to get away with before so easily. Discrimination against women (workplace/education etc), limitations of basic human rights, sexual assault, physical violence, etc. I could go on. And those are just at the tip of the iceberg. I can be more specific but this is just too tiring having to repeatedly remind people of this. Men are just spiteful that they’re not having as much fun and control as they used to.
With all these new rules and laws that are being passed to accommodate women’s needs, who do you think is in charge of this? of course, men. Who else? You were all in charge in the past, you are still in charge now. And you think we’re gaining control over you? That’s a whole lot of crap.
About the commercials or tv shows that portray men as bafoons, do you seriously get offended by that? Seriously? The whole world already knows that men are the superior gender, that’s why you guys are the world leaders, right? Ever since cave man times, you’ve ruled nations, kingdoms,led men in epic battles, shaped the world, wrote history. And you seriously think a little joke of a tv show that portrays men as idiots hurts your ego? If it does, then the belief that women are unpredictable emotional bitches is untrue.
Now, go to the women’s perspective. Let’s start from when humans first walked on earth, women are sold, traded like objects. Not allowed to own property. They are not allowed to speak their mind. If they do, you can beat them senseless. They are expected to stay at home, barefooted and pregnant. Their value is determined by their beauty, for which it is decided what’s to be done to them. Sold as slaves, pimped out as prostitutes, or if the parents are lucky, arranged-marriagged off to a rich bachelor? Not allowed to vote, go to school, or work outside of home? Why? because they are worthless. Not worthy enough like a man. Not intelligent enough to hold an education, much less have a career. Ok, now we’ll let you think you’re smart enough to go to school and get a job, but we’ll pay you less for the same job because you’re still inferior to men. We can also grab your ass when you’re passing by our desk and make unwanted advances and possibly rape you (and get away with it). Also, don’t forget about your duties at home. Gotta juggle that too, you know. Can’t have men helping around the home cause it’s not their job. Now, we’ll even let you do a man’s job (trades,technical jobs)… but we’ll hassle you and laugh at you because women aren’t smart enough to do that. Driving? Computers? Women know how to use computers? Now that’s hilarious.
Now PhilC, after all that, tell us why we shouldn’t be offended at sexist jokes against women. In commercials, in gatherings, anywhere. Ever since the dawn of time, we have been thought of as stupid and incapable of taking care of ourselves. We have been trying to fight that stereotype, to prove to the world that we can be just as good as men and contribute to society. A little joke like that creates another metaphorical glass ceiling that we need to break. It destroys everything that we’ve fought for. It does in fact promote a stereotype that is slowly being accepted again in society. We are lucky that we even have the illusion of control and superiority over men in those commercials. We are lucky that you even let us have that little bit of wishful thinking over something that we’ll obviously never get. Now that I think of it, it may be just rubbing salt on the wound because it’s not reality. It’s just a damn commercial or tv show that’s made up by hollywood’s best writers. It’s only on TV that a woman can be the president of the United States. (that’s just an example)
It’s scary that more people are actively trying to stamp out feminism. And if they succeed, then we’ll be back where we started. And that’s what you want, isn’t it, PhilC?
To Melanie:
Like the whites who cry over “reverse discrimination” when blacks, Hispanics, and other minorities fight for their rights, men like PhilC will make the same cry when we fight for our rights because we want to be treated like–horrors!–human beings.
Great argument, Melanie.
Melanie,
You made a decent argument. But, you seem to think I’m some enemy. Maybe you are just stereotyping, because if you do, you can keep on hating men that way? God forbid you listen to what I’m saying. God forbid you see for yourself what’s happening.
Just keep living in your feminist world.
If you would listen to a new perspective, maybe you’d see what I’m saying? Are you strong enough to do that?
I know, I know, you’d rather just call me names and say I’m what’s wrong with the world. It’s safer that way.
Wrong. See, I’m not arguing the validity of feminism. The idea of feminism. Not in it’s original state. But this version, well, this version is looking for control. You said it yourself. You don’t see a problem with those commercials. Why not?
Isn’t it a feminist idea that women have had society-imposed visions of themselves due to what they see and here from the time they were children?
I mean, if that is the TRUTH that you all claim to say it is, then that means the same can be said for future generations of boys, since our commercials and TV shows clearly are sexist against men. Nobody will deny that.
Who cares what I think about them? I’m not even offended. I can tell by your remarks though, that I’m right…you are quite the sexist. A little unwarranted dig about my ego, man’s ego. The whole you know, hypocrisy thing going on here. A sexist complaining about sexism….hahaha. Gotta love the feminist world.
But, back to the point:
If men and women are truly equal, then a boy will be just as affected by the constant negative connotations as will girls. Unless of course, girls aren’t nearly as strong minded as boys. But, I don’t think you’re suggesting that.
See, this is what you miss about our world: Right now, women have more opportunity than men. Grants are specifically catered to women, and with programs set up to specifically help women, there is help that is not available to men. In the business world, in education, etc…
Now, when everything was getting started, yes, it was necessary. However, a full generation later, and you now have young girls that pretty much can get and do whatever they want WITH HELP, but young boys are left to fend for themselves. Is the opportunity the same? Yes. But the chances of success are not. Heavily favored for women, because of the guiding hand.
So, now, imagine a young boy. He already sees this. He already hears the constant howl of the old feminists. He hears how EVERYTHING is his fault, though none of it is. My generation had to go through that. It was not our fault but you wouldn’t know it, by the feminists. And now, not only does he not get the help he needs in the classroom, because teachers make it a point to help GIRLS, he also has to watch shows and commercials that show men in a negative light. And he can watch as girls get grants just for being girls, and he is left to scratch and claw his way just to get to even ground.
Now, if you are smart, you can see that there is a negative pattern that will develop from this. Boys will not have that confidence to pursue their dreams, and contribute to society, because they are being told they are scum. They are being reminded of that constantly. And then they see little girls get advantages they were never given.
But you don’t care. And this makes you, what? A sexist? Yep.
So, as a feminist who’s a sexist, how is that not some serious hypocrisy going on? Back to the original point.
If you don’t care that you are sexist towards men, that means you are no better than those same men you cry about. That also means, that this whole feminism thing was created out of jealousy, because men gained control before women could.
If that’s the case, at least be strong like those men of old, and stand up with it and be upfront about it. Don’t hide behind some false sense of ‘morality’ when in fact, you’re just as bad as they are. Got it?
Veronica,
Please don’t tell me you’re that stupid.
Discrimination is discrimination, no matter what race you are. Calling it ‘reverse’ indicates that racial discrimination is ‘owned’ and patented by whites, and that we are the only people who use it. LOL. No one can be that stupid, can they?
There is discrimination against whites, just as there is against blacks, hispanics, asians, etc… (or did you forget about them because you only think in black and white?). If you don’t see that, you are a blind fool.
The only problem is, discrimination against whites is accepted in our society, and discrimination against asians goes unnoticed, because there is no big backlash about it.
Blacks discriminate, whites discriminate, asians discriminate, hispanics discriminate.
Not all blacks, not all asians, not all hispanics. Guess what? Not all whites!!!!
Get this through your head: It was not a black man that gave you your freedom. It was not a black man that gave you your right to vote.
It was whitey!!!! Yes, I know, the horror. God forbid you actually give credit where credit is due. Was it necessary?
Yes. Was it some great act of heroism? No. But it WAS an act that got you and your race a chance you didn’t have to have.
You seem to forget, that white men were in power when everything changed.
What does that mean? It means for every dispicable white guy that you hate so much, there was also a white guy that stood up for YOU. For no reason other than to do what’s right. They didn’t have to.
But, it’s so easy to look at one racist, blame him for everything you’ve been through, and then take that mindset and apply it to all people that look like him. That actually is the very definition of racism.
So, maybe you should look in the mirror before you open your mouth about this?
Melanie,
I’m sorry. I know I’m going to REALLY irritate you right now, but I have to laugh.
You indicated that men were paid more than their women counterparts for the same work.
That made me laugh. I’m not going to say my experience is the norm, so I can’t disagree with you entirely, but I can say I’m not alone, as I’ve had similar discussions with other men. So, read into it what you wish.
However, I will say this: EVERYWHERE I have worked, no matter it an insignificant job, or a good job with high demands and good compensation, I have NEVER done the ‘equal work’ thing as my women counter-parts.
Oh, our description was the same. Yes it was. But when something went wrong, I was the person to step up and figure out the problem and solve the problem. Not one woman in all of my years. I kid you not, at least 2 of my jobs, there were, instead, women who got so ’stressed’ about it, that they were reduced to tears.
Working at a bank (operations), I ran the same ‘job’ as women there. I also worked twice as fast as any of them there, and when we got behind, I was the guy who stepped up and helped out.
Working on air in a live tv broadcast, I was the person who had to do the higher-end work, when things came down to crunch time. Why? I took the time and initiative to learn more than my job requirement. I made myself better. The women who had the same opportunity sure as hell didn’t.
Same job, more pay. More DESERVING of that pay. But in your studies, those poor helpless women were being discriminated against. That’s bull shit in it’s finest form.
My job after that, I ended up again, learning very quickly some extra skills that allowed me to be able to out-produce and out-perform any of the women, many of whom were there before me, for many years. And I kept hearing the talk. ‘He’s being given that responsibility because he’s a MAN’. Yeah, whatever. I took the initiative that those DID NOT take.
Yet, in your studies, I’m paid more for the same work. Yeah, keep telling yourselves that. You’ll never be truly equal if you keep running studies just to make yourselves feel better.
It’s called accountability. Make the women accountable for their own actions, instead of always crying and complaining about what men do and don’t do, and maybe you’ll be treated as equals more often, instead of the weaker sex. It’s because you act like the weaker sex. That’s the truth.
womenissues,
I just read your link. The only thing I will say, is yes, you are right to want to change people’s ‘generalizations’. However, I guess my point is, why don’t you worry about changing how women generalize and stereotype men?
Do that, and let men worry about generalizing and stereotyping women, ok?
See, the problem is, and the point I try to make is, that you women don’t seem to see your own fault in the very same area you complain about!!
You complain about commercials making women look inferior, yet you laugh at the commercials that make men look inferior. At best, you do nothing, which, correct me if I’m wrong, but if a man says nothing when a woman is being discriminated against, is he not empowering the discriminator? Well, in your eyes, yes. But you fail to make the connection, or worse yet, you refuse to?
You complain about men generalizing, yet in your very argument, you (feminists) make generalizations about men!!! LOL. That’s actually very entertaining, because it’s so obviously a hypocrisy. Yet you (feminists) won’t acknowledge it when brought to your attention. When confronted, you go back to your old safe, ’since the beginning of time, women were, blah, blah, blah’.
It’s old, comfortable, and best of all, completely ignores the confrontation staring you right in the face. That’s why you go to it.
You complain about men controlling women, yet you applaud when a woman uses her sexuality to control men, because it’s so ‘empowering’. WTF? HAHAHA.
You (feminists) could write a book about hypocrisy!!!
You complain about a man who views women as a sexual object, but then you won’t look at your own objectification of men.
You don’t ‘love’ men simply for the sake of ‘loving’ them. You love them where and if they provide SOMETHING for you. Doesn’t even matter what it is. There is no unconditional love in relationships. It can be emotional, physical, material, etc… doesn’t matter. You view men as a way to get what you want.
You need to look no further than women’s views of weddings (it’s about her, not him) and engagement rings (wtf? I mean, if you love me, you don’t need no thousands of dollars ring to prove I love you, right?) for proof.
The point is, you spend so much time trying to change MEN’S behaviors, when really, you should be looking at your own, and changing them, first.
Be a man. Lead by example.
@PhilC
Oh, please—white men didn’t just hand women’s rights to them—-both women and blacks had to fight like hell for their rights to vote and against discrimination–how dare you sit there and claim white men GAVE it to them—now THAT’S some bulls***. Also,about those women at your jobs that didn’t pull their weight—they don’t represent ALL women, so quit generalizing. Wedding are a big deal simply because they are BIG business ($72 billion a year) and also because woman have been so indoctrinated from birth by society for so long that weddings and marriage are supposed to be the be-all and end-all of their lives. Plus, marriage used to be really the transferrence of women as property over to another man, that’s all it was about.
Oh, about discrimination against—gimme a damn break! White people (especially white men) have been discriminating against EVERYBODY that wasn’t a white man since this country began, simply because white men had the POWER to do it, and they still continue to do it today. Having a black president does NOT mean that discrimination and sexism just automatically disappeared when he got elected—that right there is the silliest damn thing I’ve heard. All I can say is that white men in this country are finally reaping what they’re been sowing for the past couple of hundred years, and naturally, because the ball’s been in your corner for so damn long, you can’t handle it. Reverse discrimination, my behind. So what if your ancestors weren’t slaveowners or rich landowners–you are still benefitting from a system that was set up to benefit white men AND white men ONLY. So stop whining about and face the reality that ya’ll ain’t gonna be in charge forever, dammit!
Good point Linda, that comment he made uncalled for and you did right to put him in his place.
@PhilC
You are right, but they (women) will NEVER see the truth of what you are saying.
That blind inability to comprehend and follow reasoned logic is in essence the ‘female mind’ and it is this quality that truly separates men from women.
Nice try though.
I am sorry if my last comment was a little disingenuous, what I meant was ‘feminists’ would never see the truth of what you’re saying.
Phil,
If you’re looking for stupidity, just look right into a mirror. We know exactly what you are and we’re not fooled.